tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 25 17:01:09 2003
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Re: vIghro'wIj - batlh lut
Thank you for taking a look at my story, SuStel. I appreciate any comments and corrections you made for me. But I do disagree with a few of your comments. I think that the most important element to the story was missed. I don't think you caught the exact "story-telling element" I was going for. I made the story to be a bit suspensful...that is why I did not give the "jagh HoS" an identity until the end. When the reader finds out it is merely the rain, it adds a bit of humor. Also, I'm trying to give a creative aspect to the story. I'm not really trying to write an essay, but more of a good old-fashion Klingon story. That's why I don't always go for conventional writing (as in the case of saying "ramvam - ramvam"). A few of your corrections, I believe, may have misinterpreted what I was going for (my fault :). I'll go through and comment on your corrections...remember my comments are always marked with this: <><> See what you think...
David Trimboli <[email protected]> wrote:
>From: Klingon Warrior
>
>vengwIjDaq vIghro'wIj rotlh law' Hoch vIghro'mey rotlh puS. ram naQ
>chontayDaq ghaH
>vIghro'wIj'e'.
Is there any kind of /ram/ that isn't /naQ/? What you want here is /Hoch/:
/ram Hoch/ "all of the night," "the whole night."
And /ram Hoch/ isn't a time stamp, it's a duration. The usual way to do
this is: /qaStaHvIS ram Hoch/ "during the whole night."
<><>Agreed, but how do I know when something is a duration? I'd like to know exactly when I'd use the phrase /qaStaHvIS/.
Cats are typically not beings capable of using language. You have
/vIghro'wIj/ right (instead of using the /-wI'/ suffix), but you used /ghaH/
where you should use /'oH/. (Later in the story your cat seems to speak,
but I'm skeptical as to whether this is a valid reason to change suffixes
and pronouns.)
<><>Actaully, I was paying homage to my Warrior Cat :) Again, this is the stray from the conventional writing (personification) I was talking about.
A /chontay/ is not a physical location, so don't use the locative suffix
/-Daq/ on it. Rephrase this sentence, perhaps like this: /qaStaHvIS ram
Hoch chontaymo' wam vIghro'wIj/.
<><>By saying, "(qaStaHvIS ram Hoch) chontayDaq ghaH vIghro'wIj'e'", I was really trying to say, "My cat is {on the ritual hunt} every night." Can I not do this with the suffix -Daq. My translation of -Daq, in this case, is the word "on." Please explain...can -Daq only be used if it is an actual physical location?
>veng che' ghaH. mIl'oDmey che' ghaH. toQmey che' ghaH. qu' ghaH.
>HoH, pung Hutlh, SuvwI' HoS ghaH, 'ej ghaH mevlaH pagh. ram ghaj
>vIghro'wIj...
That particular English idiom, "My cat owns the night," doesn't work in
Klingon. Anyway, /ghaj/ is "have," not "own."
<><>I wasn't trying to say, "My cat owns the night." I was trying to say exactly what I said...My cat has the night. Other than it sounding a bit weird, is there a problem with it? I was adding more nonconventional style to the story here.
>batlh chutmey yaj vIghro'wIj 'e' reH vISov, 'ach ghaytanHa' jagh HoSghajvaD
>mev ghaH 'e' vIQubpu'.
Remember not to put a Type 7 suffix on the second verb of a Sentence As
Object construction. The suffix migrates to the first verb. /ghaytanHa'
jagh HoSghajvaD mevpu' 'oH 'e' vIQub./
<><>Agreed. Simple rule that I forgot about. Is there any other suffixes that must not be on the second verb in SAO construction?
>ramvam -
According to Okrand, the way to say "tonight" is /DaHjaj ram/. This makes
sense: /ramvam/ "this night" could refer to any night in question. But you
haven't brought up any particular night so far, and "tonight" isn't an
obvious default in Klingon.
<><>I did want to say "tonight," but changed it to "this night" for more of that Klingon story-telling ingredient. That's why I said it twice..."This night - this night there is a strong enemy, my Friends."
>ramvam qeylIS vIttlhegh tIQ yaj vIghro'wIj. ramvam jagh HoS tu'lu',
>juppu'wI'.
Not a correction: you might want to say /jagh HoS ghom/ "[My cat]
encountered a strong enemy."
> vIghro'wIjvaD tlhoy HoS jaghvetlh.
>QorwaghDaq Sup ghaH.
'Iv?
<><>Ah, there's that suspense I was talking about :)
>QaHwIjvaD jach ghaH.
"My help" isn't really the beneficiary of the action /jach/. I'd probably
word this as /vIQaHmeH jach/ "He/it screamed for me to help."
<><>Just a gramatical question, but why use the verb prefix vI- on QaH? I may not fully understand the whole use of -meH, so this is probably why I'm confused. "He screams for I help it"? I know that's literal, but explain the syntax here please.
> ghaH vonlu'! "Oh, HIQaH, HIQaH!" jach ghaH,
jatlhlaH vIghro'lIj?
<><>It's a story, SuStel :) So, of course he can!!
>"QobDaq jIH
"I am in trouble" is another English idiom that doesn't work in Klingon.
How about this? /Qob ghu'wIj/ "My situation is dangerous." If I were in
trouble, though, I'd fall back on clipped Klingon, and shout, /Qob!/
"Danger!"
<><>This is the same question from above about the use of -Daq. Does this have to be a physical location? My translation of -Daq, in this case, is the word "in." Doesn't work?
>'ej jISuvlaHbe'." toH, Hur lojmItDaq vIqet.
There is no indication that /qet/ can take an object. Use the /jI-/ prefix
to indicate no object. /Hur lojmItDaq jIqet/ "I ran to the outside
door/gate."
<><>Yeah, I caught that after I posted it. qatlho'.
> qoDDaq qet vIghro'wIj, 'ej ghaH tu'lu'...
Another not-correction: /'ej 'oH vItu'/.
<><>Was my translation okay, though..."My cat ran inside, and there is was..."?
>ghaH HaHchoHmoHlu'. Hur, SIStaH.
/Hur/ is a location in which the verb takes place. /HurDaq SIStaH./
<><>qatlho'.
>DaH jaghDaj Sov ghaH, 'ej ramvam qeylIS vIttlhegh tIQ Sov ghaH...
>"Dujeychugh jagh nIv yItuHQo'." wa'leS, wamqa'. :)
pov lut! majQa'! motlh muD Duj, leng joq neH Dellu'. jIHobbe' 'e' vInID.
'a Dajbej lutlIj!
<><>bIHobtaH!?! :) luq, jItaHlaH, 'ach QaQ lutwIj 'e' DaQub jIQuch. qatlho'.
SuStel
Stardate 3481.8
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taHjaj wo'!
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