Re: Temptress of the stars - text

[Quvar valer <levinius@gmx.de>]

jabbI'IDghomvaD ngeHbe'lu'law' QInvam.
'ach HochvaD lI' 'e' vIHar.

Somehow, this was not sent to the list.
But I think it's useful for everyone


------- tagh QIn -------
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: Quvar valer <levinius@gmx.de>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Temptress of the stars - text 
Date: 19.09.2002 16:48:46

Quvar wrote:

To start with, a general suggestion:  Instead of using {ghaH} in nearly 
every line for "she", try alternating it with {be'} "the woman".  {ghaH} 
"he/she" is ambiguous in Klingon anyway, and using the pronoun only serves 
to distinguish the object or subject from {chaH} "them" with third person 
verbs.

>1.a) HaStaDaq be' 'IH ghaH
>"She was beautiful on the screen"

HaStaDaq 'IH be'.
The woman is/was beautiful on the visual display (on monitor).

I'm not sure if something can be "on" the display, which to me refers to 
the image on the screen, not the screen itself.  Ex.:

   HaSta yIcha'
   Show the visual display!  TKD

The display should be on the {jIH} "monitor (device), viewing screen, 
viewscreen" or {jIH'a'}  "main viewscreen, main viewer". E.g.:

   jIH'a'Daq HaSta yIcha'!
   Show the visual display on the main viewer!

>1.b) jIHDaq be' 'IHqu' bejlu'
>"On the viewing screen, a beautiful lady could be seen."

Better.

>2.a) yoq rur porghDaj 'ach/'ej Hujqu'   Her body looked humanoid, but/and 
>strange
>2.b) yoq rur 'ach Hujqu'    she looked humanoid but strange.
>2.c) yoq ghaH 'ach Hujqu'   she was humanoid but strange.

All good, but why {Hujqu'}?  Isn't {Huj} "be strange" strong enough?

>3. Soch nuj(Du') ghaj (ghaH)    She had seven mouths

maj.  A person does {ghaj} body parts:

   cha'maH cha' joQDu' ghaj qama'
   The prisoner has twenty-two ribs.  KGT

>4. 'ej wa' mIn tIn(qu') ghaj (ghaH) and (she) had a (really) big eye.

maj.

>5. a) nuqotlh(chu') ghoghDaj    her voice tickled us (perfectly).
>5. b) DubDu'maj qotlh(chu') ghoghDaj    Her voice (perfectly) tickled our 
>backs.
>[I don't which one is better]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "tickle".  Are you saying her 
voice raised your hackles?  Our only example of {qotlh} is

   cheqotlhchugh maHaghbe''a'?
   Tickle us, do we not laugh? TKW

You might try {DuQ} "touch (emotionally)":

   Food also resembles music in that if it affects one in an especially
   positive way--that is, if the food particularly satisfies the eater -
   one may say {DuQ Soj} ("The food stabs him/her"). (KGT 84)

   muDuQ bom
   The song stabs me (i.e. The song moves me). KGT

or {pIl} "be stimulated, be inspired, be motivated" and {pIlmoH} 
"stimulate, inspire, motivate", both from KGT.  Cf. also {nong} "be 
passionate" and {Hot} "touch, feel" [physically].

>6.a) tlhu'wI' lu'omlaHbe'   they could not resist the temptress.
>6.b) ghaH lu'omlaHbe'   they could not resist her.
>[Is that the right word for "resist"? {qaD} don't look good here, I think.]

{'om} "resist, fend off" - seems fine.

BTW, {tlhu'wI'} is "one who is tempted", i.e. her 
victim.  "Tempter/Temptress" would be {tlhu'moHwI'}.

{tlhu'}  "be tempted"
{tlhu'moH}  "tempt" (i.e someone else)

>7. ya...wa'DIch...tagh...   The tactical officer was the first one to go
>I found no solution yet. That one's tricky.

   ghoSbogh ghot wa'DIch ghaH ya'e'.
   the tactical officer was the first person who goes

>8. Qobbe' ghor nuja'      "he said the surface is not dangerous."
>[Originally, this was "he told us the surface is safe."]

There's a slang term: {QaD} "be safe, be protected" in KGT (p.161):

   Literally meaning "be dry", the word QaD may be applied to just about
   anything: a person, object, place, and so forth. For example, QaD puq
   ("The child is dry") means that the child is safe; vengHom QaD ("dry
   village") means that the village is protected. This slang meaning may
   have developed in part because of the Klingon association of water with
   weakness (as opposed to the strength of blood or ale, for that matter)
   and in part because of the phonetic similarity of QaD to Qan ("protect").

>9. nepbej, be'vetlh qotlhchu'ghachna'mo'
>"He lied to us because of the "definitely perfect tickle-ing" of that woman"
>[Originally: "He fooled us, because..."]

   maHvaD nep.
   He lied to us.

What's wrong with {toj} "deceive, trick, bluff"?  Examples:

   not toj tlhInganpu'
   Klingons never bluff ("Klingons never deceive"). TKW

   HItojQo'
   Don't deceive me. KGT

BTW, {qotlhchu'ghachna'mo'}... yechh!  How about

   qotlhchu'mo' be'vetlh, nutoj.
   Because of that woman tickled him perfectly, he deceived us.

   pIlmoHchu'mo' be'vetlh, nutoj.
   Because that woman stimulated him perfectly, he deceived us.

>10.a) wItlha'    we followed her
>10.b) matlha'  we followed

maj.


>11. jegh latlh, jegh latlh je.  one by one surrendered

{latlh} is "another one".  Another what?  Try:

   jegh wa';  jegh latlh; jegh latlh je
   one surrendered; another surrendered; yet another surrendered


>12. lujpu' Hoqmaj Dun     Our great expedition failed

maj.

>13. tlhu'wI' be' wIqIHDI'   when we met the temptress for the first time.

tlhu'moHwI' be'

>14. SIbI' nuvuQ(choH) noSvaghDaj    her deodorant fascinated us immediately

for "perfume", qar'a'?  Also try {pIw} "odor, scent, smell".  Note that 
{pIwDaj} "her smell" doesn't imply a bad smell in Klingon:

   This does not necessarily imply a bad smell. Odors are not considered
   "good" or "bad"; they are just odors. There may be a subjective
   evaluation of the source of the odor, however. It is a compliment to
   suggest that someone smells like rokeg blood pie not because the smell
   itself is good, but rather because the food carries with it positive
   associations. On the other hand, it is most insulting to say that
   someone smells like rotting forshak." (KGT 86)

Remember:

   reH bang larghlu'
   Love is always smelled ("A loved one is always smelled"). TKW

   vay' DalarghDI' yIqaw
   member the scent. (i.e. "Learn from your experiences"). TKW

>15. majeHpu'mo' wIvonlu'    we were trapped because we'd been absentminded
>[I used this expression, because in slang it can also mean "fail utterly", 
>and this fits pretty good. Does it have the right prefix? I think with the 
>"correct" prefix, the slang meaning is gone.]

Right: {wIvonlu'} "something traps us".  I'm never sure of the prefixes 
when using [-lu'} either.

KGT 165f.:

   The slang expression is used in such constructions as bIvonlu'pu'
   ("You have failed completely"; literally, "You have been trapped").

Another error?  Shouldn't this be {Davonlu'pu'}, like {batlh Daqawlu'taH} 
"You will be remembered with honor"?

>16. Saqpu'DI' Hoch tagh muvtay  The initiation started as soon as everyone 
>had landed.

maj.

>17. pe'vIl tlhu'bogh ghewmey nuje'taHvIS     While she fed us with "love-bugs"
>[I don't know what the author means with that]

Why did you add {pe'vIl}, which is not in the original?

If you want to say "bugs that tempt", you need to use {-moH}: {tlhu'moHbogh 
ghewmey}.

>18. ghojmoHwI' Dun ghaH wIpong  we called her "great teacher".

Examples of {pong} "name, call":

   roD 'oHvaD juHqo' ponglu' neH
   [it] is usually referred to as simply "The Homeworld." S27

   DaHjaj matlh jupna' pIpong
   Today we name you a true friend of Maltz. FMC

[Did Okrand approve the wording of the KLI's "Friend of Maltz Certificate"?]

>19. tlho' nughojmoH     She taught us gratitude.

maj.  Nice use of the "prefix trick".

>20. 'ej tlhu'bogh qotlhchu'ghach? nughojmoH ??  and the tempting tickling.
>[you see the question marks...]

Other than using {tlhu'moHbogh}, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

>21. toy'wI'a'Daj wIDaqang      We behaved willingly as slaves.

Prefix: {DI-}  "we [do something to] them":

   toy'wI'(pu')Daj DIDaqang
   we behaved as her willing slaves

   toy'wI'(pu')Daj DImojqang
   we became her slaves willingly

>23.a) tlhu'wI' be'  temptress woman
>23.b) tlhu'bogh be' tempting woman
>23.c) tlhu'wI'na'       true tempteress
>[Now what would be the best? I think the easiest would be {tlhu'wI'}, but 
>how make it more clear it's a female?]

As above, "tempter/temptress, one who tempts (others)" is {tlhu'moHwI'}, 
not {tlhu'wI'} "one who is tempted".  So:

   tlhu'moHwI'na'    "true tempter"
   tlhu'moHwI' be'   "tempter woman"
   be' tlhu'moHwI'   "woman tempter"
   tlhu'moHbogh be'  "woman who tempts"


>24. puQDI' ghaH DujDaq nutatlh'eghmoH    when she was satisfied she sent 
>us back.
>     [Can we use it like that?]

{puQ}  "be fed up".  This is an English idiom meaning to be extremely 
frustrated, angry, annoyed.  It does not mean "be sated".  You want {yon} 
"be satisfied".

As for {tatlh'egh}, Okrand wrote on st.klingon (July 1999):

   Though not common, it is also possible to use tatlh with the reflexive
   suffix -'egh ("do something to oneself") to convey a meaning similar
   to that of chegh: pa'Daq jItatlh'egh "I return to the room" ... The
   tatlh'egh form seems to suggest that the doer of the action is forcing
   himself/herself to do something, perhaps because it is difficult or not
   desirable.

I think plain {tatlh} "return (something)" works here.  Okrand wrote int he 
same st.klingon post:

   A different verb, tatlh, is used for "return" in the sense of returning
   a library book or returning a weapon to the weapons rack. If someone were
   to say something like "I return the plate to the table," the appropriate
   verb would be tatlh: raSDaq jengva' vItatlh "I return the plate to the
   table."

Alternatively, try *{ngeHHa'} "un-send" or {nobHa'} "give back, return"

   Huch nobHa'bogh verenganpu''e' yIvoqQo'
   Don't trust Ferengi who give back money. TKW

>25.a) 'ej machegh 'e' tuch (ghaH)        and she forbid us to come back
>25.b) 'ej machegh 'e' chaw'be' (ghaH)    and she didn't allow us to come back.

maj.

>26. (ghaH) wInej(bej)taH    We (certainly) keep looking for her.

maj.

>27.a) ghIpDIjDaq <yIchoq> majach(bej)   At the court martial we will 
>(certainly) shout "save her"!
>27.b) ghIpDIjDaq majach <yIchoq>    At the court martial we will 
>(certainly) shout "save her"!

maj.  I assume you're using so many {-bejmey} and {ghaHmey} so it fits the 
music.

>28.a) luq, Ha'      Okay, let's go.
>28.c) Ha'! pa' majaH    let's go. May we go there.

These are fine.  Examples of {Ha'} "Let's go! Come on!" in canon:

   lu', Ha'!
   Okay, let's go! CK

   Ha'! DaH matlhutlh.
   Let us go get a drink (now)! PK

   Ha'!
   [Torg motions boarding party to follow him] ST3

   Ha'!
   [guard grabs Kirk in Okrona's transporter room] ST5

   Ha'!
    Come along then. (Radio Times)

>28.b) pa' majaHjaj? May we go there.

Drop the question mark: {pa' majaHjaj} "May we go there", though this 
sounds awkward in English.

   {-jaj}  may, can, let

   This suffix is used to express a desire or wish on the part of the
   speaker that something take place in the future. When it is used,
   there is never a Type 7 aspect suffix. {-jaj} is often translated
   with "may" or "let", and it is particularly useful when placing a
   curse or making a toast. (TKD 175f)

Sounds like it would be fine in Klingon.

>[This sounds very terran, like {maja'chuqjaj} 28.a is the best I think. Or 
>I drop the -jaj?...]

I agree. 28a or 28c are better.




-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons


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