tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Sep 20 01:55:43 2002
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Re: Temptress of the stars - text
- From: Quvar valer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Temptress of the stars - text
- Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:53:28 -0400
jabbI'IDghomvaD ngeHbe'lu'law' QInvam.
'ach HochvaD lI' 'e' vIHar.
Somehow, this was not sent to the list.
But I think it's useful for everyone
------- tagh QIn -------
From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
To: Quvar valer <[email protected]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Temptress of the stars - text
Date: 19.09.2002 16:48:46
Quvar wrote:
To start with, a general suggestion: Instead of using {ghaH} in nearly
every line for "she", try alternating it with {be'} "the woman". {ghaH}
"he/she" is ambiguous in Klingon anyway, and using the pronoun only serves
to distinguish the object or subject from {chaH} "them" with third person
verbs.
>1.a) HaStaDaq be' 'IH ghaH
>"She was beautiful on the screen"
HaStaDaq 'IH be'.
The woman is/was beautiful on the visual display (on monitor).
I'm not sure if something can be "on" the display, which to me refers to
the image on the screen, not the screen itself. Ex.:
HaSta yIcha'
Show the visual display! TKD
The display should be on the {jIH} "monitor (device), viewing screen,
viewscreen" or {jIH'a'} "main viewscreen, main viewer". E.g.:
jIH'a'Daq HaSta yIcha'!
Show the visual display on the main viewer!
>1.b) jIHDaq be' 'IHqu' bejlu'
>"On the viewing screen, a beautiful lady could be seen."
Better.
>2.a) yoq rur porghDaj 'ach/'ej Hujqu' Her body looked humanoid, but/and
>strange
>2.b) yoq rur 'ach Hujqu' she looked humanoid but strange.
>2.c) yoq ghaH 'ach Hujqu' she was humanoid but strange.
All good, but why {Hujqu'}? Isn't {Huj} "be strange" strong enough?
>3. Soch nuj(Du') ghaj (ghaH) She had seven mouths
maj. A person does {ghaj} body parts:
cha'maH cha' joQDu' ghaj qama'
The prisoner has twenty-two ribs. KGT
>4. 'ej wa' mIn tIn(qu') ghaj (ghaH) and (she) had a (really) big eye.
maj.
>5. a) nuqotlh(chu') ghoghDaj her voice tickled us (perfectly).
>5. b) DubDu'maj qotlh(chu') ghoghDaj Her voice (perfectly) tickled our
>backs.
>[I don't which one is better]
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "tickle". Are you saying her
voice raised your hackles? Our only example of {qotlh} is
cheqotlhchugh maHaghbe''a'?
Tickle us, do we not laugh? TKW
You might try {DuQ} "touch (emotionally)":
Food also resembles music in that if it affects one in an especially
positive way--that is, if the food particularly satisfies the eater -
one may say {DuQ Soj} ("The food stabs him/her"). (KGT 84)
muDuQ bom
The song stabs me (i.e. The song moves me). KGT
or {pIl} "be stimulated, be inspired, be motivated" and {pIlmoH}
"stimulate, inspire, motivate", both from KGT. Cf. also {nong} "be
passionate" and {Hot} "touch, feel" [physically].
>6.a) tlhu'wI' lu'omlaHbe' they could not resist the temptress.
>6.b) ghaH lu'omlaHbe' they could not resist her.
>[Is that the right word for "resist"? {qaD} don't look good here, I think.]
{'om} "resist, fend off" - seems fine.
BTW, {tlhu'wI'} is "one who is tempted", i.e. her
victim. "Tempter/Temptress" would be {tlhu'moHwI'}.
{tlhu'} "be tempted"
{tlhu'moH} "tempt" (i.e someone else)
>7. ya...wa'DIch...tagh... The tactical officer was the first one to go
>I found no solution yet. That one's tricky.
ghoSbogh ghot wa'DIch ghaH ya'e'.
the tactical officer was the first person who goes
>8. Qobbe' ghor nuja' "he said the surface is not dangerous."
>[Originally, this was "he told us the surface is safe."]
There's a slang term: {QaD} "be safe, be protected" in KGT (p.161):
Literally meaning "be dry", the word QaD may be applied to just about
anything: a person, object, place, and so forth. For example, QaD puq
("The child is dry") means that the child is safe; vengHom QaD ("dry
village") means that the village is protected. This slang meaning may
have developed in part because of the Klingon association of water with
weakness (as opposed to the strength of blood or ale, for that matter)
and in part because of the phonetic similarity of QaD to Qan ("protect").
>9. nepbej, be'vetlh qotlhchu'ghachna'mo'
>"He lied to us because of the "definitely perfect tickle-ing" of that woman"
>[Originally: "He fooled us, because..."]
maHvaD nep.
He lied to us.
What's wrong with {toj} "deceive, trick, bluff"? Examples:
not toj tlhInganpu'
Klingons never bluff ("Klingons never deceive"). TKW
HItojQo'
Don't deceive me. KGT
BTW, {qotlhchu'ghachna'mo'}... yechh! How about
qotlhchu'mo' be'vetlh, nutoj.
Because of that woman tickled him perfectly, he deceived us.
pIlmoHchu'mo' be'vetlh, nutoj.
Because that woman stimulated him perfectly, he deceived us.
>10.a) wItlha' we followed her
>10.b) matlha' we followed
maj.
>11. jegh latlh, jegh latlh je. one by one surrendered
{latlh} is "another one". Another what? Try:
jegh wa'; jegh latlh; jegh latlh je
one surrendered; another surrendered; yet another surrendered
>12. lujpu' Hoqmaj Dun Our great expedition failed
maj.
>13. tlhu'wI' be' wIqIHDI' when we met the temptress for the first time.
tlhu'moHwI' be'
>14. SIbI' nuvuQ(choH) noSvaghDaj her deodorant fascinated us immediately
for "perfume", qar'a'? Also try {pIw} "odor, scent, smell". Note that
{pIwDaj} "her smell" doesn't imply a bad smell in Klingon:
This does not necessarily imply a bad smell. Odors are not considered
"good" or "bad"; they are just odors. There may be a subjective
evaluation of the source of the odor, however. It is a compliment to
suggest that someone smells like rokeg blood pie not because the smell
itself is good, but rather because the food carries with it positive
associations. On the other hand, it is most insulting to say that
someone smells like rotting forshak." (KGT 86)
Remember:
reH bang larghlu'
Love is always smelled ("A loved one is always smelled"). TKW
vay' DalarghDI' yIqaw
member the scent. (i.e. "Learn from your experiences"). TKW
>15. majeHpu'mo' wIvonlu' we were trapped because we'd been absentminded
>[I used this expression, because in slang it can also mean "fail utterly",
>and this fits pretty good. Does it have the right prefix? I think with the
>"correct" prefix, the slang meaning is gone.]
Right: {wIvonlu'} "something traps us". I'm never sure of the prefixes
when using [-lu'} either.
KGT 165f.:
The slang expression is used in such constructions as bIvonlu'pu'
("You have failed completely"; literally, "You have been trapped").
Another error? Shouldn't this be {Davonlu'pu'}, like {batlh Daqawlu'taH}
"You will be remembered with honor"?
>16. Saqpu'DI' Hoch tagh muvtay The initiation started as soon as everyone
>had landed.
maj.
>17. pe'vIl tlhu'bogh ghewmey nuje'taHvIS While she fed us with "love-bugs"
>[I don't know what the author means with that]
Why did you add {pe'vIl}, which is not in the original?
If you want to say "bugs that tempt", you need to use {-moH}: {tlhu'moHbogh
ghewmey}.
>18. ghojmoHwI' Dun ghaH wIpong we called her "great teacher".
Examples of {pong} "name, call":
roD 'oHvaD juHqo' ponglu' neH
[it] is usually referred to as simply "The Homeworld." S27
DaHjaj matlh jupna' pIpong
Today we name you a true friend of Maltz. FMC
[Did Okrand approve the wording of the KLI's "Friend of Maltz Certificate"?]
>19. tlho' nughojmoH She taught us gratitude.
maj. Nice use of the "prefix trick".
>20. 'ej tlhu'bogh qotlhchu'ghach? nughojmoH ?? and the tempting tickling.
>[you see the question marks...]
Other than using {tlhu'moHbogh}, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.
>21. toy'wI'a'Daj wIDaqang We behaved willingly as slaves.
Prefix: {DI-} "we [do something to] them":
toy'wI'(pu')Daj DIDaqang
we behaved as her willing slaves
toy'wI'(pu')Daj DImojqang
we became her slaves willingly
>23.a) tlhu'wI' be' temptress woman
>23.b) tlhu'bogh be' tempting woman
>23.c) tlhu'wI'na' true tempteress
>[Now what would be the best? I think the easiest would be {tlhu'wI'}, but
>how make it more clear it's a female?]
As above, "tempter/temptress, one who tempts (others)" is {tlhu'moHwI'},
not {tlhu'wI'} "one who is tempted". So:
tlhu'moHwI'na' "true tempter"
tlhu'moHwI' be' "tempter woman"
be' tlhu'moHwI' "woman tempter"
tlhu'moHbogh be' "woman who tempts"
>24. puQDI' ghaH DujDaq nutatlh'eghmoH when she was satisfied she sent
>us back.
> [Can we use it like that?]
{puQ} "be fed up". This is an English idiom meaning to be extremely
frustrated, angry, annoyed. It does not mean "be sated". You want {yon}
"be satisfied".
As for {tatlh'egh}, Okrand wrote on st.klingon (July 1999):
Though not common, it is also possible to use tatlh with the reflexive
suffix -'egh ("do something to oneself") to convey a meaning similar
to that of chegh: pa'Daq jItatlh'egh "I return to the room" ... The
tatlh'egh form seems to suggest that the doer of the action is forcing
himself/herself to do something, perhaps because it is difficult or not
desirable.
I think plain {tatlh} "return (something)" works here. Okrand wrote int he
same st.klingon post:
A different verb, tatlh, is used for "return" in the sense of returning
a library book or returning a weapon to the weapons rack. If someone were
to say something like "I return the plate to the table," the appropriate
verb would be tatlh: raSDaq jengva' vItatlh "I return the plate to the
table."
Alternatively, try *{ngeHHa'} "un-send" or {nobHa'} "give back, return"
Huch nobHa'bogh verenganpu''e' yIvoqQo'
Don't trust Ferengi who give back money. TKW
>25.a) 'ej machegh 'e' tuch (ghaH) and she forbid us to come back
>25.b) 'ej machegh 'e' chaw'be' (ghaH) and she didn't allow us to come back.
maj.
>26. (ghaH) wInej(bej)taH We (certainly) keep looking for her.
maj.
>27.a) ghIpDIjDaq <yIchoq> majach(bej) At the court martial we will
>(certainly) shout "save her"!
>27.b) ghIpDIjDaq majach <yIchoq> At the court martial we will
>(certainly) shout "save her"!
maj. I assume you're using so many {-bejmey} and {ghaHmey} so it fits the
music.
>28.a) luq, Ha' Okay, let's go.
>28.c) Ha'! pa' majaH let's go. May we go there.
These are fine. Examples of {Ha'} "Let's go! Come on!" in canon:
lu', Ha'!
Okay, let's go! CK
Ha'! DaH matlhutlh.
Let us go get a drink (now)! PK
Ha'!
[Torg motions boarding party to follow him] ST3
Ha'!
[guard grabs Kirk in Okrona's transporter room] ST5
Ha'!
Come along then. (Radio Times)
>28.b) pa' majaHjaj? May we go there.
Drop the question mark: {pa' majaHjaj} "May we go there", though this
sounds awkward in English.
{-jaj} may, can, let
This suffix is used to express a desire or wish on the part of the
speaker that something take place in the future. When it is used,
there is never a Type 7 aspect suffix. {-jaj} is often translated
with "may" or "let", and it is particularly useful when placing a
curse or making a toast. (TKD 175f)
Sounds like it would be fine in Klingon.
>[This sounds very terran, like {maja'chuqjaj} 28.a is the best I think. Or
>I drop the -jaj?...]
I agree. 28a or 28c are better.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
-------- rIn QIn --------