tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jun 27 17:45:52 2002
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
RE: pabmey nap pagh napHa'
In that case (not to keep butchering a dead horse but...)...
Logic tells me that there must be a root verb, /nga'/, which I seem
unable to find... Perhaps /nga'/ is just an abbreviated version of
/ngagh/ (mate)? But I've never NOTICED that being done before... Not
that that invalidates it.
In the other cases you mention I believe (I don't have my TKD or
wordlist present) that there are ROOT verbs that have the suffix /-choH/
added to them to arrive at this (potentially) new verb/meaning.
Am I missing something or should I just put it down to "that's the way
it is and /nga'chuq/ is a verb + Suffix-1 combination that must always
be together, period?
I don't mean to be getting hung up on something that was (probably)
debated and put to bed a long time ago, but I want to understand the
"why" whenever possible to enable me to better understand and use the
language.
rItlhmoQSuvwI'
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Boozer [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 17:05
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: pabmey nap pagh napHa'
rItlhmoQSuvwI' wrote:
>Ok... I guess that because I've seen /nga'chuq/ listed alone I thought
>it was treated as a root verb and that's why I felt OK putting the
>/'egh/ suffix on it.
Those separate entries confused a lot of us for a while, but Okrand has
explained that those entries consisting of verb + suffix - most often
{-moH} - were added to make it easier for the non-specialist fan to look
things up quickly in the glossary, particularly in the English-Klingon
side. Someone asked Okrand on startrek.klingon in Nov. 1997 whether
{chen}
"build up, take form, take shape" and {chenmoH} "build, form, make,
create"
are different verbs, and he replied:
It is, of course, possible to add the suffix {-moH} to lots of verbs;
not
all of the verb + {-moH} combinations are listed in the Dictionary as
distinct entries. The ones that are listed are there as much as a
matter
of convenience for the user as anything else... The absence of a
verb +
{-moH} entry in the Dictionary lists does not mean that that
particular
formation cannot be made ...
Of course, he couldn't just leave it at that, and so he goes on to say:
A problem comes in because some of these forms (that is, some of
these
verb + suffix combinations) are so common, they seem to, in the minds
of
some Klingons anyway, act as if they were simply verb and not verb +
suffix
at all. This seems to happen only when the suffix in question is
{-moH}
"cause". Maltz reports having heard both {quv'eghmoH} "he/she honors
him/
herself", which follows the expected order (verb-Type 1-Type 4: {quv}
"be
honored, {-'egh} "oneself", {-moH} "cause") as well as the weird
{quvmoH'egh}
"he/she honors him/herself", in which the Type 1 suffix {-'egh}
"oneself"
follows the Type 4 suffix {-moH} "cause", an impossible formation
unless
the speaker is considering the verb to be {quvmoH} "honor" and not
{quv}
"be honored".
Speakers who do this seem to be aware that they are breaking the
rules,
so they are doing it for rhetorical effect. (It has the same sort of
feeling,
perhaps, as if someone were to say in English "Don't cellular phone
me this
afternoon", or "I've been postnasal dripping all morning", or "It's
lightninging and thundering outside", or, to follow the Klingon
example,
"He/she self-honors".)
If this sort of thing happens a lot, maybe, in time, the language
will
undergo some sort of reformation; maybe {-moH} will become a Rover.
Or
{quvmoH} and similar forms will become simple (though two-syllable)
verbs.
But neither is the case yet, and while some speakers of Klingon may
treat
them as such, the wisest course is to leave such things to the poets
and
keep -moH in its Type 4 position. Thus, finally and at long last, to
answer your first specific question, say {vIchennISmoH} for "I need
to
create it".
This doesn't permit *{yInga'chuq'egh}, as two suffixes of the same type
cannot appear on one verb - except for Rovers.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons