tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 25 16:26:02 2002

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Re: Headers. Yet again.

From: <>
> charghwI' (if I understand him correctly) isn't saying that it's not
> He's merely saying that through observation we simply do not see it

Actually, it seems to me like he's saying that since we don't see it
happening, it's not allowed.  And from the point of view of someone trying
to tell someone how to say things that Klingons will accept, that's just

> If MO someday does somehow make a "meaningful" sentence with a type 5
(except -
> 'e') on a subject or object, then fine.

He has.  The verbs of motion.  Those have Type 5'd nouns as the object.

If your response to this is "But they're exceptions!" then I'd say that any
other sentence that Okrand comes up with that might do this sort of thing
will also be called an exception, and ignored.  As ghunchu'wI' has pointed
out very well, we have lots of these so-called exceptions.  Maybe it's not
that simple.

Let's also note something here (and bear with me, I'm working from memory
right now): in the interview with Okrand in which he explains the verbs of
motion, he doesn't say they're exceptions to any rule.  He just explains
them, tell us how to use them.  He didn't comment on WHY they're used that
way, and he didn't say they're exceptions.

They are EXCEPTIONAL in that they're the only (known) verbs which can take
actual locative nouns as objects, but they're not an exception to the
grammar.  As I see it.  They're an exception to NORMAL USAGE, but not to

>  If it's allowed then we can easily
> say "...the ship in which I fled".

Hmm.  Could you demonstrate this?  It eludes me.

> That certainly isn't what came into mind.  I do understand what you're
> to say; if MO someday says this construction works and this is how it's
> translated, fine, I'll accept it.  Till then, observation says "this
> happen; so far we've seen type 5 only in the header".
> Again, he's not saying it can't, just that it hasn't.

I really think he's saying it can't BECAUSE it hasn't.

I'm saying maybe it can, but it doesn't.  And that the only way we'll find
out about those that do is if Okrand tells us.

Stardate 2482.9

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