tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jul 13 01:47:05 2002

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Re: grammar questions

>From: "Stephan Schneider" <>
> > what's the relevant difference of these sentences:
> >
> > Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej.
> > Qu'vaD lI' 'e' tu'lu'bej.

At 02:05 PM 7/12/2002 -0400, SuStel wrote:
>One is correct.  The other is not.
>When the second verb of a Sentence as Object construction has no subject,
>instead of /'e' X-lu'/, one uses /net X/.  This is exactly what /net/ is

TKD page 38 says that {-lu'} is used to indicate that the subject is 
unknown, indefinite and/or general.
TKD page 66 says that {net} is used when the intended meaning is "one" or 
On page 66, it says that in {qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov}, {net Sov} implies 
that it is common knowledge that "we kill prisoners".

I would argue that {net} does not *always* need to be used instead of {'e' 
X-lu'}. If you equate "one/someone" with "unknown/indefinite/general", then 
{net} should always be used instead of {'e' X-lu'}. However, I perceive a 
difference between the two, and I don't think that {'e' X-lu'} is 
completely wrong.

I think of {net} as referring to people in general, such as "One should 
look both ways before crossing the street", while {-lu'} indicates to me 
that the subject isn't specified. However, just because it isn't specified, 
doesn't necessarily mean that it refers to all people in general.

I'll try to explain the nuances that I perceive with an example about Torgh 
shooting a targ out of the torpedo tube.

{chetvI'vo' targh bach torgh net Qoy} To me, this implies that the targ was 
loud enough, so that anyone around at the time heard the targ being launched.

{chetvI'vo' targh bach torgh 'e' Qoylu'} This, however, suggests that 
someone heard the targ launched, but the speaker isn't saying who heard it. 
It might have been the Captain, it might have been the officers next to the 
torpedo tube, or maybe it doesn't matter - the speaker is focusing on the 
torpedo tube incident, and not on who exactly heard it.

I agree that there are times when people might erroneously use {'e' X-lu'} 
when they really should use {net}. However, I think that {net} doesn't 
encompass every meaning of {'e' X-lu'}, and they aren't necessarily the 
exact same thing. {'e' X-lu'} doesn't always mean "one" or "someone", so I 
don't think {net} must *always* replace {'e' X-lu'}.

vuDwIj vIQIjchu'be'chugh, HIchuH

- taD

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