tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 21 17:34:46 2002
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Re: Klingonase vs. tlhIngan Hol
But I hav heard Worf use Klingoneese as the word 4 the
Klingon language. If so, why is this a point of
contention. All we are saying is the same thing 4 the
same word. Now if we want to be technical, correct me
if I'm wrong, but anything written in books is
considered non-cannon. Anything produced on t.v. or
in the movies is considered cannon. If the former is
correct, then anything written by Ford would be
non-cannon. To be exact so is the Klingon Dictionary.
As someone pointed out earlier, some of the other
shows, since ST3 have strayed away from the Klingon
Dictionary. So this would seem to prove my theory.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
--- malqa <[email protected]> wrote:
> Most of the fans from Klingon trek clubs that I have
> met, only accept
> Ford's book and the *info* therein, as the klingon
> language/culture.
> Whenever I've pointed out or tried to teach them the
> language from TKD,etc
> they were not in the least interested. To me, only
> Okrand is canon
> material,not one paperback book by some obscure Trek
> author. These
> followers still continue to use the Honorifics,name
> formation,etc even
> though it hasn't been written that way in years in
> 'canon' Trek.
> The Final Reflection vIlajbe'
> or should that be
> The Final Reflection vIHarbe'
>
> Lt.Commander Maud "malqa" Freifelder
> Chief Security Officer USS Triumph NCC-26228
> "Triumph Against All Odds"
> STARFLEET/Region 2
> [email protected]/aka tfn.net
>
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Robyn Stewart wrote:
>
> > > Doesn't Klingonase/Klingoneese pre-date
> tlhIngan Hol, the language
> > invented
> > > by Marc Okrand?
> >
> > Just barely.
> >
> > John M. Ford's first Klingon novel, The Final
> Reflection was published May
> > 1984, and tlhIngan Hol was created for Star Trek
> III, which premiered June
> > 1st 1984. The first edition of TKD wasn't
> available to fans until 1985,
> > however.
> >
> > > From my understanding of this, Klingoneese
> words were
> > > introduced in the books by John Ford. Some of
> these words were adopted by
> > > 'gamers' and these are still used by KAG for
> honorifics and ranks. Isn't
> > this
> > > where the K'whatever names came from? Please
> correct me, as it is all very
> > > confusing.
> >
> > You have it exactly right. With only a handful of
> words and phrases, Ford
> > created the illusion of a language. Mostly the
> vocabulary was honorifics,
> > ranks, K'names and ritual expressions. Most
> experienced Klingonists
> > recognize Fordisms, and they are held in higher
> regard than ParHol. There
> > are a few in Hamlet, even. I consider
> Klingonaase to be another language
> > of the Empire.
> >
> > > > Klingoneese is how most refer to the
> "dialect" created by John Ford.
> > ta' Hol
> > > > refers to what Okrand gives us. tlhIngan Hol
> is how you refer to the
> > Klingon
> > > > language, any dialect.
> >
> > It's spelled Klingonaase, but even Ford's Klingons
> comment on the fact that
> > DIvI' Hol speakers keep saying -eese.
> >
> > And I just found this.
> >
> >
>
http://hotwired.lycos.com/talk/club/special/transcripts/96-08-13-okrand.html
> >
> > Not terribly relevant, just poor Marc getting
> spammed online, and he called
> > some of us "amazing." I didn't remember seeing it
> before.
> >
> >
>
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