tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 08 14:30:54 2001
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Re: Proverbs
ghaHbe'wI' wrote:
: -Welsh:
: "cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon"
: <<Hol Hutlhchugh Segh, vaj tIq Hutlh Segh>>
I assume the Welsh original is simply:
Hol Hutlh Segh; tIq Hutlh Segh.
Some variations...
Since the original appears to lack a conjunction (my Welsh is rusty!), you
could drop the {vaj} which emphasizes that the second clause is dependent on
the first. There are a lot of Latin proverbs like this, also lacking any
explicit conjunction between the two clauses or phrases, and which rely solely
on the sequence for the listener to make the "obvious" connection. Also, since
you have added an explicit {-chugh} "if" to the first clause, you might want to
omit the repetitive subject:
Hol Hutlhchugh Segh, tIq Hutlh.
Hol Hutlhchugh Segh, tIq Hutlh je.
Hol Hutlhchugh Segh, tIqDaj Hutlh.
Hol Hutlhchugh Segh, tIqDaj Hutlh je.
Again, you can always add {vaj} to any of these for added emphasis.
Another pattern we've seen in Klingon proverbs is with {rur}. E.g.:
Hol ghajbe'bogh Segh rur tIq ghajbe'bogh Segh.
Hol Hutlhbogh Segh rur tIq Hutlhbogh Segh.
on the model of:
Hov ghajbe'bogh ram rur pegh ghajbe'bogh jaj.
A day without secrets is like a night without stars. PK
though {rur} seems to be used more to compare two different things, e.g. {ram}
vs. {jaj} above. Instead, you could make this an equational sentence:
tIq ghajbe'bogh Segh 'oH Hol ghajbe'bogh Segh'e'.
tIq Hutlhbogh Segh 'oH Hol Hutlhbogh Segh'e'.
i.e. a race without its language is not merely LIKE lacking a heart, it IS
lacking a heart.
: -Occitan:
: "l'arma de l'Occitania es son arma"
: <<nuHna' ghaj Occitania: qa''e'>>
I might have used {qa'Daj} *son arma* ("it's spirit"?) here. {-na} together
with {-'e'} seems like over-kill, especially when the original contains no
particular added emphasis. It looks like you want {qa'} to stand in apposition
to {nuHna'}, the object:
Occitania has a true weapon: THE SPIRIT!
though I'm not sure how this would work given Klingon's inverted OVS word
order. (In English, "weapon" and "spirit" follow each other directly which
makes apposition simple.) It would be simpler to re-word this slightly:
nuHna' 'oH Occitania qa''e'.
Occitania's spirit is it's true weapon.
I assume there's a pun on *arma* in Occitan, which seems to mean both "arms"
(*arma* in Latin, Spanish, etc.) and "soul" (*alma*). (Correct me if I'm
wrong.) Although you lose the pun, you can certainly translate the proverb
literally, without any embellishment, as either:
qa'Daj 'oH Occitania nuH'e'.
Occitania's weapon is it's spirit.
or
nuHDaj 'oH Occitania qa''e'.
Occitania's spirit is it's weapon.
depending on your preference. Which version do Occitan speakers hear the
proverb as? Is "l'arma de l'Occitania" the weapon or spirit of Occitania?
: Translations are not literal, but the meaning is the same.
: [snip]
: Comments and add-ons are welcome.
Well, since you ask...! Why avoid a literal translation? In general I would
try to resist the impulse to explain the meaning of a text or add emphasis
which you think is missing in the original. Just try to translate it as
faithfully as you can, given Klingon's grammar and vocabulary. Let the reader
interpret it for him- or herself and leave the exegesis for the footnotes.
After all, proverbs often have more than one interpretation and, like your
Occitan example, may be intentionally ambiguous!
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons