tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 20 12:10:52 2001

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Re: KLBC: Qov qeqmeH mu'tlheghmey



"Michael A. Stumpe":
>> In order to test that theory, we placed forty tribbles on the starship.
>> ngervetlh wIwaHmeH 'ejDo'Daq loSmaH yIHmey DIlanpu'.
 
Qov:
>I accept your argument against tob, but having rejected tob, I'd recommend
>Daj.  I would translate /nger wIwaH/ as "we sample the theory."
 
ghunchu'wI':
: {Daj} implies to me that the "test" is poorly conceived, and that it's not
: going to give a useful answer to the question.  *I* think {tob} works fine
: here.  I don't believe it means the same thing as "demonstrate to be
: correct."  It seems to me that it's more like "establish the truth of a
: proposition."  It feels a lot like {'ol} "verify", which I think would also
: fit well here instead of {waH}.

Let's see how these (and a couple of other) verbs are used in canon:

{tob} "test conclusively, prove" 

  'One accepts a challenge ({qab 'ang} [literally, "shows face"]) in
  order to prove one's honor ({quv tob} [literally, "test honor
  conclusively"])" in a duel.' (KGT p.69)

  SuvwI' qa' patlh veb chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu' 
  [They] use the devices [painstiks] to inflict pain in a manner which
   will allow the Klingon to attain a higher state of spirituality as
   a warrior, proving his mettle. S32

  logh veQDaq bachchugh, yoH 'e' toblaHbe' SuvwI'.
  Shooting space garbage is no test of a warrior's mettle. (MO ST5 notes)

Note: this was Okrand's original translation of the line in the ST5 script.

{Daj} "test inconclusively"

  vaj toDuj Daj ngeHbej DI vI'.
  Shooting space garbage is no test of a warrior's mettle. 
  ["Sharpshooting of the cosmos' litter inconclusively tests a
    warrior's courage."] (ST5: as filmed)

Interestingly, {Daj} "test inconclusively" originated in Okrand's re-fit of
Paramount's careless repetition of this line in ST5. (See the excellent
discussion in the current HolQeD for more details.)  Okrand simply inverted the
meaning of {tob} "test conclusively, prove".

{waH} "try out, use experimentally"

  {waH} means "try out, use (experimentally)" and it is also the word
  used for taste in the sense of trying out food to see if it's prepared
  properly or to find out if you like it." (st.klingon 7/97)

  qagh vIwaH
  I taste the gagh
  ("I try out the gagh [to see how it tastes]") (st.klingon)

To me at least, this implies a tangible, physical object as the expected direct
object of {waH}.  E.g.:

  betleHwIj chu'qu' vIwaH
  I tried out my brand new bat'leth

  begh botjan Se'mey chu' waHtaH jonpInma'
  Our chief engineer has been experimenting with new deflector shield
   frequencies

though perhaps Klingon scientists and theoreticans might well use it
colloquially with {nger} "theory", as do English speakers.

{'ol} "verify"

  yIvoq 'ach yI'ol
  Trust, but verify. TKW

{chov} "assess, evaluate, test"

  luchovmeH 'oy'naQmey lo' 
  [Warriors] who test him with painstiks. S9

  tlhIngan wo' yuQmey chovlu'chugh Qo'noS potlh law' Hoch potlh puS.
  The principal planet of the Klingon Empire, Qo'noS... S27

  Also cf. {chovnatlh} "specimen" (n.).

{ngong} "experiment"

  ngongmeH wa' DujDaq nuHmey nISbe'bogh So'wI' jomlu'pu' 
  [A cloaking device which didn't disrupt weaponry was installed
   on one experimental ship. (untranslated)] S33

{nID} "attempt, try"

  DuraS tuq tlhIngan yejquv patlh luDub 'e' reH lunIDtaH DuraS
   be'nI'pu' lurSa' be'etor je.
  The sisters of the House of Duras, Lursa and B'Etor, are constantly
   seeking a higher standing for the House of Duras within the Klingon
   High Council. S26

After examining the alternatives, I agree with ghunchu'wI' that {ngervetlh
tobmeH} does seem the best translation of "in order to test that theory":

  ngervetlh tobmeH 'ejDo'Daq loSmaH yIH lulanlu'.
  To test that theory, 40 tribbles were placed on the starship.

To avoid choosing between {tob} and {Daj}, an even simpler version of Michael's
sentence is with {ngong}:

  ngongmeH, 'ejDo'Daq loSmaH yIH DIlan.
  As an experiment, we placed 40 tribbles on the starship.

P.S.  Note that punctuation can distinguish between {ngongmeH 'ejDo'Daq} "on an
experimental starship" (e.g. a prototype, on the model of SkyBox S15's {QongmeH
Duj} "sleeper ship") and {ngongmeH, 'ejDo'Daq...} "in order to experiment, on a
starship..."  To further disambiguate (particularly in speech), we can follow
the example of S33 and use {wa'} "one":

  ngongmeH, wa' 'ejDo'Daq loSmaH yIH DIlan.
  As an experiment, we placed 40 tribbles on one starship.

Lengthening the pause slightly after {ngongmeH} would also help, though neither
are 100% unambiguous (for those who obsess about ambiguity).



-- 
Voragh                       
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons


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