tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 11 14:43:47 2001
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RE: KLBC: Qov qeqmeH mu'tlheghmey
- From: Will Martin <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: KLBC: Qov qeqmeH mu'tlheghmey
- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:43:32 -0400
> From: "Stauffer, Tad E (staufte7)" <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:16:20 -0400
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>> quS'a'Qob said:
>>
>> 'ach jIDajchugh, vaj lujlaw'pu' ngong. <HIja'> <ghobe'> ghap
>> vIjatlhlaHbe' vIjangmeH. yapbe' ngong mIwmeywIj. vaj, mIwwIj
>> vIlughmoHDI', jIngongnISqa'.
>>
>> [But if I test inconclusively, then the experiment has seemingly
>> failed. I can't say one way or the other. My experiment's procedures
>> are insufficient. So, as soon as I correct my procedures, I need to
>> experiment again.]
>>
> As was already pointed out, a verb with the suffix {-meH} goes before the
> noun or verb that it modifies. So your second sentence here would be:
> {jIjangmeH, <HIja'> <ghobe'> ghap vIjatlhlaHbe'} "In order for me to
> reply, I cannot say 'yes' or 'no'."
Please forgive me for being a little picky here, but since this is KLBC, I
think this particular casting may encourage people to make what is already
a common error in Klingon. The example may actually be right as stated or
maybe not. I'm not sure. I do know, however, that the grammar of it, even
if correct, cannot be generalized the way I'd generalize it if I thought it
were correct.
Verbs of speech in Klingon are much more limited in Klingon than in
English. {jatlh} and {ja'} are really the only ones Klingon uses and the
grammar for them is very specific. Basically, you use the sentence of
speech (in this case {jIjatlhlaHbe'} -- note the corrected prefix, since in
this case, {jatlh} does not have a direct object -- and the direct quote
stated exactly like it was stated by the original speaker. These two
sentences are jammed together with no grammatical attachment whatsoever.
The quotation is not the direct object of the verb of speech.
{jatlh} can have a direct object, but that object would be a word like
{Hol} or {SoQ}. It would not be the direct quote itself. The order of these
two grammatically independent sentences is reversable. As a matter of
style, I tend to favor putting the sentence of speech before the direct
quotation just because it makes it all the more obvious that the quotation
is not the direct object of the verb of speech. It also matches what we've
seen Okrand do more often than not.
So, with all that said, how do you use the verb of speech in this case when
you have two different quotations, preferably joined by the conjunction
{ghap}? Well... I don't know. When faced with a grammatical challenge like
this, I tend to back up and recast, even if it is a little more awkward.
Ewww. It's even messier than that, since {jIjangmeH} combines badly with
{-laHbe'} statements like this. Am I intentionally unable to say yes or no
in order that I promote the goal of answering?
Okay...
jIjang vIneH 'ach jIjatlhlaHbe' <HIja'> qoj jIjatlhlaHbe' <ghobe'>.
jIqarmeH jIQIjnISlI'.
If I wanted a short version of this, I'd just use the last sentence.
SarrIS