tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 28 14:21:52 2000
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re: Grammar Highlight (-Daq = at)
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: re: Grammar Highlight (-Daq = at)
- Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:21:26 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:32:11 EST
> Disclaimer: {-Daq} has other usages. This highlight touches only on the
> fact that it means "at," the locative usage.
> Klingons tell where the action is taking place by putting a "locative
clause"
> before the basic OVS sentence. The "clause" ends with the noun suffix,
type
> 5 {-Daq}.
I need to point out here that this is an interpretation of what TKD
explains. The interpretation is an interesting one. It does tempt one
towards potential conclusions that might mislead a beginner, so I feel a
need to respond a bit.
In particular, {-Daq} is a noun suffix. Period. It is not a "noun clause"
suffix. It does get shifted to adjectival verbs following and describing a
noun because it is a Type 5 noun suffix and all Type 5 noun suffixes shift
to trailing adjectival verbs in all circumstances, locative or not.
Interpreting this to mean that {-Daq} follows any "noun clause" to make the
whole clause a locative would tempt one to apply it to a relative clause in
very inaccurate ways, since relative clauses act grammatically as nouns and
a relative clause could be accurately called a "noun clause".
With this interpretation, if I wanted to say, "I ate at the restaurant that
Krankor recommended," your description might lead one to the following
mistake:
**Qe''e' chupbogh QanqorDaq jISop.**
Yuck.
That should, of course, be:
Qe'Daq chupbogh Qanqor jISop.
Even that is stylistically ugly, IMHO, but it fits the two Okrandian
examples in canon I was very sorry to see several years back. But that's
another battle lost and I'll move on.
> Examples: juHDaq raS vIghaj = I have a table at home.
> (juH = home; -Daq = at; raS = table; vIghaj = I have it)
> qach tInqu' retlhDaq Dochmey ngev Suypu' = The merchants sell things at
the
> side of the very big building.
> (qach = building; tInqu' = very big; retlh = the area alongside; -Daq =
at;
> Dochmey = things; ngev = sells; Suypu' = merchants)
> Notice that the {-Daq} goes on the final element of the clause.
This is where your interpretation potentially interferes with a beginner's
understanding of how the grammar works here. What is actually happening
here is that {-Daq} is a Type 5 noun suffix that ordinarily is applied to
the noun itself, but in the exceptional circumstance that the noun is
followed by a verb used as an adjective, the Type 5 noun suffix, which in
this case happens to be {-Daq}, but could just as easily be {-mo'} or
{-vo'} or {-vaD} or even {-'e'}).
If you model your grammar this way, then it leads you to later
generalizations that work. All Type 5 noun suffixes can be moved to
trailing adjectives (my impromptu term for an adjectival verb following the
noun). This generalization basically works in Klingon.
Meanwhile, if you accept the model you posit, then you start looking for
other kinds of noun "clauses" that could get the special suffix {-Daq}
(independent of other Type 5 noun suffixes) moved to "the end of the
clause".
That is not a generalization that will hold up very long. {-Daq} is not
behaving differently from any other Type 5 noun suffix here, and it is not
going consistently at the end of a "noun clause". It instead is merely
moving to an adjectival verb, just like all Type 5 noun suffixes do.
> qach machDaq loD vISampu' = I have found the man at the small building.
> (qach = building; mach = small; -Daq = at; loD = man; vISampu' = I have
found
> him)
> Again, notice that {-Daq} is on the final element, even though it is a
verb
> of quality, not a noun.
You are looking at an effect and describing it as if it had a different
cause than it likely does. I'm not sure this is helpful.
> Qe'Daq qagh Sop tlhIngan yaS = The Klingon officer eats Ghak at the
> restaurant. (Qe' = restaurant; -Daq = at; qagh = Ghak [serpent worm
alive as
> food]; Sop = eats; tlhIngan yaS = Klingon officer)
> *Obviously {-Daq} could have been translated as "in" here.
> peHruS QInnor puqloD
SarrIS