tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 28 13:51:23 2000
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RE: Caribbean-Klingon tale
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: Caribbean-Klingon tale
- Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:50:55 -0500
>>> Here you have a short tale of a Caribbean dialect
>>>from Venezuela,...
>>> 3- ngugh ghu' tu' vay', 'ej <<mevyap!>> ja'.
>>nuqDaq mu'vam Datu'? <<mevyap>> vIngu'be'. loQ >vIyaj, 'ach mu'
tetlhwIjDaq vISamlaHbe'.
>{mevyap} -> KGT p.113:
>"it comes from two Klingon verbs, {mev} ("stop, cease")
>and {yap} ("be enough, be sufficient"). No doubt in
>the past, the locution was longer, perhaps {yImev, yap!}
>("stop! it's enogh"). The dropping of the imperative
>prefix {yI-, pre-} is what would be expected in Clipped
>Klingon. The two words have been used in juxtaposition
>for so long, they have come to be accepted as a single,
>though grammatically peculiar, word."
I'm trusting you to be accurate. I just added this to the New Words List,
though I don't have the source with me to verify. yIvoq 'ach yI'ol.
choja'Ha'chugh vaj Do'Ha'.
The description doesn't really give us a good gloss or a part of speech,
so, to make it consistent with the rest of the word list, I'm calling the
definition "stop, enough already" and I'm listing it as an exclammation,
since it seems to be used as a whole sentence without any modification
(prefix, suffix, etc.) and seems to consistently be a command. The rest of
you might want to update your word lists, too.
>>> 4- HochvaD naH wav ghaH 'e' jang chaH.
>>lujang. Hmmm. jIyajchu'be'. They answered that he
>>divide the vegetable for everybody. ?
>Yes, {lujang}. And yes, that's what I wanted to mean:
>they answered that he divide the vegetable for them
>(for everybody who was there, obviously).
I have two problems with this. First, it isn't really an answer because
there never really was a question. Answers do not just spring out of the
mind. They are responses to questions and here, there was no question.
Second, it sounds a lot to me like a command. Aren't they telling him to
divide the vegetable? I'd say this as:
lura'. jatlh <<HochvaD naH yIwav!>>
>>But who asked? Why answer when nobody asked? Are they
>>making a request?
>Nobody asked, but in sentence 3 the third guy {ja'},
>so they reply to that {mevyap!}.
I'm fairly sure that the Klingon verb {jang} does not work for the full,
vague breadth of the English verb "reply". Klingons do not go for these
needlessly colorful variations on the more direct verbs {ja'} and {jatlh}.
Humans say, "He said A, then she replied B, so he posited C, inspiring her
to considerately respond D, to which he blurted E and she hot-headedly
fired back F..." Nope. In Klingon, for the most part, you just use {jatlh}
and let the original dialog stand for itself. If you want to make a comment
on the style with which one {jatlhlI'}, it becomes a separate descriptive
sentence.
Meanwhile, it doesn't make sense for them to make a statement that he
divides the vegetable for everybody. He hasn't done it yet. It's not even
certain that he will. So, why would they describe him doing it? They are
not making a statement about him doing it. They are asking him to do it, or
more pointedly, in Klingon style, they are commanding him to do it. There
is no Klingon word for "polite".
>>> 5- naH poSmoH ghaH, 'ej chIm naH ghIq 'e' lutob.
>>He opened the vegetable, and then THEY proved that it
>>was empty? Huj.
>Perhaps better than {lutob} would be {lulegh}. HISlaH, Huj 'ach teH.
Also consider {lutu'}. It was a discovery, after all. They were expecting
something different.
> Anyway, I just have translated a native Caribbean tale.
>Do you demand unquestionable logic to English tales?
>Do English wolves speak? It's just a tale! Have fun!
I always have fun. pe'vIl, of course.
>--ghaHbe'wI'
SarrIS