tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 22 15:06:17 1999
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Re: Annoyance
jatlh ghunchu'wI':
> This list cannot be "impartial" at all! We're talking about a language
> here, remember? Language by definition has rules that govern its proper
> use, and it has conventions that its users follow in order to communicate
> effectively. There is a definite standard by which discussion and use of
> the Klingon language must be judged.
>
> It seems to me that part of the problem is that people sometimes join the
> mailing list without realizing that there are folks here who already can
> (and actually do) use Klingon conversationally. We "oldtimers" know what
> we're talking about. We *know* that some tasks attempted by occasional
> newcomers are counterproductive. We *know* that there are certain levels
> of understanding that must come before other levels of understanding. If
> that comes across as condescending or arrogant, I'm sorry, but I know of
> no other way to do things.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI' 'utlh
I hope that no one minds this departure from list policy for a moment, but
I've been thinking about this sort of thing for a while. See also my
summary at the bottom. (And no, this message is not directed solely at
ghunchu'wI'.)
Yes, we "old-timers" (and I'm not as old-time on this list as some of you,
but I've done my time as a Beginners' Grammarian) know what it's all about.
We know what's counterproductive and what's not possible. We know the style
of the language and things like how difficult it is to translate poetry.
But is it really our place to boss newcomers around?
"We're talking about a language here, remember? . . . There is a definite
standard by which discussion and use of the Klingon language must be
judged."
This is quite true: Klingon is a real language, with real rules and a real
vocabulary. But there is another aspect to Klingon which other languages do
not have. I think this aspect is more important than any other. The whole
purpose of the Klingon language is to enjoy it. The purpose of English is
to speak English, the purpose to Chinese is to speak Chinese, and the
purpose of Basque is to speak Basque. Only Klingon has the purpose of
having fun. That's why the language was invented. More importantly, that's
why so many people show up on this list wanting to speak it. Other
languages developed because they were needed (for a variety of reasons);
Klingon developed because it was fun.
Yes, it's true: people learning Spanish generally don't start out trying to
translate poetry. Because they don't particularly want to. But that's
something they want to do in Klingon! It's one of the reasons WHY they want
to speak the language at all!
What other way is there to do things? Why, step back and let newcomers make
mistakes! Let them try to translate poetry! Let them try to make up new
words that don't make any sense! That's what we all tried to do when
starting to learn this language. If a newcomer wants help with the
language, he'll talk to the Beginners' Grammarian. When some list "'utlh"
steps in and starts ordering what's allowed and what's not, when newcomers
hear that they're not allowed to do this or talk about that, they won't want
to subscribe anymore!
"But SuStel," I hear you object, "if we do that, they'll start promoting
wrong things to other newcomers!" Hey, we'll always be in the wings to make
sure things don't go TOO far. If a distinct dialect starts appearing on the
list, if people start trying to make widespread changes to the language,
we'll politely and pleasantly step in. PLEASANTLY. In this capacity, being
pleasant is just as important as being right.
Here's what I suggest: the "'utlhpu'" should generally restrain themselves
from discussing at length the grammar of any "non-'utlh" post, unless such
discussion is invited. Talk to anyone you like in Klingon, but don't talk
about newcomers' grammar. Even if it's in Klingon. That's the job of the
Beginners' Grammarian. If you feel an urge to tell someone "You can't do
that," STOP YOURSELF IMMEDIATELY. Whether you're right or wrong, newbies
don't want to feel unwelcome, and scolding them for not doing things your
way is a surefire way to make them feel unwelcome.
"It seems to me that part of the problem is that people sometimes join the
mailing list without realizing that there are folks here who already can
(and actually do) use Klingon conversationally."
This is OUR problem, not the newcomer's problem. This list should support
all levels of Klingon language use, not just our own vision of it. I recall
a point when I was starting to get the hang of Klingon, I was getting tired
of the bickering. Fortunately for me, I stuck with it (the circumstances of
my life at the time made it easier; I would not have stuck with it if I'd
begun now). I don't expect to see this go away, but I do remember thinking
it'd be much easier if the environment were more friendly for someone at my
stage. As far as I see it, if the "'utlhpu'" want people to keep signing up
and sticking around, they've got to become friendly. As much as some people
hate to admit it, none of us are Klingons. Being mean, whatever the reason,
is detrimental to our cause.
What's the Klingon for "public relations"? Be nice. Being polite is not
enough. It's easy to be polite while you're being mean, and that's how it
will look, no matter how hard you try, if you're not being nice at the same
time. Be pleasant. And when you see a mistake, for the most part (unless
you've been asked to correct something, or unless it's happened a dozen
times), ignore it. Don't tell them you don't understand what they meant
when you know perfectly well what they were trying to say. That's not
pleasant, that's condescending. (e.g. Newbie: "jIH yajbe'." 'utlhqoq: "He
doesn't understand the monitor? What does that mean?" Don't do this. It's
pretty enraging from the point of view of the newbie who tried hard to come
up with it. Be helpful, rather than simply critical.) If you've hurt
someone's feelings, you're in the wrong.
Well, I apologize for not following the list's guidelines here. I'm just
worried about the same thing that a couple of taghwI'pu' have complained
about: the difficult learning envronment which has been rearing its head
lately on this list. Please, everyone, be more concerned with your fellows'
needs than with your own. Thank you.
SuStel
Stardate 99891.3
P.S.: The summary: Shut up and let people have fun for a change! :)