tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 16 21:18:36 1999
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Re: Klingon WOTD: baj (v)
> yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'
> Survival must be earned. TKW
charghwI' wrote:
: So far as I know, this is the only example of {'e' Xlu'}, and it
: has this unique meaning that one must earn that one (the same
: one who is doing the earning) lives.
There's another, also with [baj} as it happens:
yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'
Victory must be earned. TKW
: So, Voragh, your services would help here. Are there other
: examples of pairs of verbs with {-lu'} such that the assumption
: is that we are talking about the same indefinite subject? Things
: like {Xlu'chugh Ylu'} or {Xlu'taHvIS Ylu'} or {Xlu'mo' Ylu'} are
: what I'd be looking for.
Here are all the pairs of verbs with {-lu'} I can find:
pujwI' HIvlu'chugh quvbe'lu'
There is no honor in attacking the weak. TKW
batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu'
One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. TKW
Heghlu'DI' mobbe'lu'chugh QaQqu' Hegh wanI'
Death is an experience best shared. TKW
'oy'be'lu'chugh Qapbe'lu'
No pain, no gain. TKW
noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu' 'ej wo' choqmeH may'
DoHlu'chugh lujbe'lu'
Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory, and ending a
battle to save an empire is no defeat. TKW
loS... 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He ghoSlu'bogh
retlhDaq 'oHtaH
It waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to unknown
regions of the universe DSN99
["(It is) next to the route one follows to travel to the unknown
regions of the universe."]
qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu'
devotion and loyalty to family is one of the most important Klingon
virtues. S13
wa'DIch tlhIngan Dujmey luleghlu'pu'bogh rur qItI'nga Duj tera'
vatlh DISpoH cha'maH wej HochHom lo'lu'taH
Similar in configuration to the first Klingon vessels encountered,
the K'Tinga-class remained in use for most of the 23rd century. S15
yIntaHbogh tlhIngan Soj tlhol jablu'DI' tIvqu'lu'
Klingon food is best when served fresh and live. S21
HovpoH Hut vagh cha' wa' vI' jav Dujvam 'aghlu'pu' 'ach Qaw'lu'pu'
[untranslated on card] S33
As to why he didn't translate the phrase with {... net Sov}, the answer is
simple: Okrand doesn't use {net}. Period.
It occurred only once in the "real world":
Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej
"You will find it useful." (ST3 subtitles)
As charghwI' himself posted on this list some time ago:
this line was one of those Valkris was filmed saying in English,
then redubbed in Klingon. Okrand had to match lip movements. The
subtitle was something like "You'll find it useful." There was no
mention of "for the mission" in the subtitle, but Okrand needed to
add something to give her a reason to keep her lips moving. Note
that lip movements for "You'll find" look a lot like {Qu'vaD},
"it" looks a lot like {lI'} and "useful" loosely matches {tu'bej}.
When Okrand wrote TKD after the movie, he was forced to invent some grammar
to cover this "Valkris-ism":
Klingon has two special pronouns, {'e'} and {net}, which refer to
the previous sentence as a whole. They are used primarily, though
not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or observation (such as
"know, see"). They are always treated as the object of the verb,
and the verb always takes a prefix indicating a third-person
singular object. What is a single sentence in English is often two
sentences in Klingon. {net} is used only under special circumstances,
but 'e' is common ... In complex sentences of this type, the second
verb never takes an aspect suffix. (section 4.2.7) When the verb of
the second sentence has a third-person subject (that is, the
pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is one or someone,
rather than "he", "she", "it", or "they", {net} is used instead of
{'e'}.
qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov
One knows we kill prisoners ...
the first sentence here is {qama'pu' DIHoH} "We kill prisoners". The
second sentence is {net Sov} "One knows that". The full construction
implies that it is common knowledge that the group to which the
speaker belongs kills prisoners.
Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej
One certainly finds it useful for the mission.
The first part of this example is {Qu'vaD lI'} "It is useful for the
mission". The second part is {net tu'bej} "One certainly finds that"
or {One certainly observes that". The full construction might also
be translated "One will certainly observe that it is useful to the
mission". (TKD p. 65f)
Note again:
{net} is used only under special circumstances, but {'e'} is common
For some reason, even after going into such detail in the Dictionary,
Okrand took an intense dislike to {net} and has never used it again in any
other source AFAIK. This prejudice explains the frequent use of {'e'} even
where the grammar is unusual, even controversial.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons