tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Mar 18 12:24:11 1999

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Re: The Naked Stars and *klingonaase*



On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:28:53 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer 
<[email protected]> wrote:

...
> I dug out my copy last night and looked up this proverb in full (TFR
> [1984], p. 23 et passim):
> 
> 	If there are gods, they do not help, and justice belongs to the 
> 	strong: but know that all things done before the naked stars are 
> 	remembered.  
> 
> Many have tried to translate this into tlhIngan Hol, none very successfully
> IMHO. 

Is that an invitation for me to give it a try, or WHAT?

qa''a' HoS lu'tu'lu'chugh vaj nuQaHQo' 'ej ruv luwuqlaH 
HoSwI'pu' neH, 'ach Hoch wanI'mey'e' leghlaHbogh Hovmey Huv reH
qawlu'chu'taH net Sov.

And for a less literal, perhaps more graceful translation, 
replace the ending with:

'ach Hoch wanI'mey'e' leghpu'bogh Hovmey Huv reH qawchu'taH net 
Sov.

"...but one knows the unobstructed stars always remember all 
events that they have seen." In both cases, I used the less 
conventional placement of the adverbial {reH} in order to make 
it clear that it applies to the main verb and not the relative 
clause. I'm pretty sure that's legal, though I don't have time 
to look that up right now.

So, is this better than other versions you've seen?

> "Naked stars" is itself an especial problem.  I've seen {Hovmey
> lu'anglu'bogh}, {Hovmey luleghlaHbogh vay'}, {tuQbe'bogh Hovmey} and even
> {Sut lutuQbe'bogh Hovmey}.  None of these feel right to me for an
> oft-repeated sentiment.  Perhaps something less literal: {Hovmey wov} "the
> bright stars", {Hovmey boch} "the shiny stars" or {bochbogh Hovmey} "the
> shining stars"?

Hovmey Huv. Nothing else works. It is clear what it means, but 
it is somewhat awkward in English, which explains why it was 
"changed" in translation for the novel. {{:)>
 
> As for klingonaase, various fan authors writing in Ford's "universe" have
> expanded our knowledge of this interesting language a bit, most notably Ann
> K. Schwader's marvelous Neysa and Karan stories and novels.  Most writers
> however only came up with words and expressions as they needed them in the
> story, so we're lacking a complete sketch of the grammar and a working
> vocabulary like Okrand's "The Klingon Dictionary."  

Most entries like this in the novels or TV series are nouns 
sprinkled into English sentences. They just don't get it. VERBS! 
If you want to express something in Klingon, use VERBS!
 
> -- 
> Voragh                       
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

charghwI' 'utlh



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