tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 25 18:59:24 1999

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Re: Placement of aspect suffixes

ja'pu' charghwI':
>Do you honestly believe that we have formed a
>conspiracy of error, agreeing on a mistaken method of deciding

ja' peHruS:
>Sometimes, yes!  Several of the KLI members live in close proximity in the
>Eastern portion of the USA.

chuq DanoHHa'.  qep'a' Datoghbe'chugh, loSlogh latlh vIghompu'.

wej ben muSuch trI'Qal. qaStaHvIS cha' jaj juHwIjDaq  maja'chuq.
'uQ'a'Daq maSoptaHvIS, Soj mu' DIqel.  laHmaj DIDubmoHmeH maqeq.

cha' ben "Chicago"-Daq janSIy (qam Qel) vISuch.  qaStaHvIS cha' rep
Qe'Daq maja'chuq.  loQ tlhIngan Hol wIbuSHa'; yejHaD neH wIqel.

wa' ben SI'IluD vIqIH.  "Austin" Dabbogh be'nI'wI' vISuchmeH,
"Houston" ghoS lupwI' vIlIghtaHbogh.  pa' jIyevtaHvIS, latlhpu'
vIqIH 'e' vInab, 'ach SaHlaH SI'IluD neH.  qaStaHvIS wa' rep

wa'logh 'angghal vIghom je.  veng SumDaq Hov leng qep'a' meb ghaH
'ej vengvetlhDaq muD Duj yotlhvo' vIlup.  qep'a'vetlh vISuch je.

>  You discuss among yourselves, or use among
>yourselves, until you have formed an opinion that excludes {Hur'Iqpu'}.

bImuj.  rut ghomvamDaq qaSbe' 'op jInmolmey, 'ach qubchu'.

>Still, since Qov became so fluent, you have accepted many of her
>interpretations (and she does not live close by you).  I often feel that if I
>had joined KLI earlier, I would have had more input into determining the
>course of Klingon you folks have enjoyed.  This does not mean that I would
>have fared better than Captain Krankor, whom you jovially keep around even
>though he speaks Klingon from another district.

I accept interpretations from many sources -- as long as they don't
go against what we can determine from reading TKD and other of Okrand's
works.  charghwI' has had a tremendous influence on my critical thinking
when it comes to crafting sentences for easy comprehension.  SuStel has
pointed out a number of things where the common usage was quite clearly
based on a mistaken understanding of the grammar as TKD describes it.
Qov showed a flair for finding words in dusty corners of the vocabulary
and using them in insightful ways.  Krankor was just plain the first to
be able to claim fluency and get away with it; even though some of his
usages are now considered idiosyncratic at best and absolutely incorrect
at worst, he commands respect because he has actually been *using* the
language and communicating with it.  Many other people contribute their
own special talents and skills and knowledge all the time, in the form
of quick access to canon phrases, explanations of grammatical terms,
quickly-understood narratives of everyday events, and helpful hints on
ways to express particular ideas.  Insights from people worldwide have
helped us to understand how certain ambiguities might be worse than we
thought, or how an "obvious" interpretation of a phrase might be not
necessarily as obvious as we considered it to be.

You have given much more input into this forum than most people.  If you
were actually trying to say something clearly instead of coming up with
isolated examples of dubious merit, you might also command some respect.
Your repeated pronouncements of things that are so completely *not* in
agreement with The Klingon Dictionary have eroded your credibility in my
eyes to where I'm not sure I can ever take what you say seriously.

>As for Qov, I have found anomalies in her interpretations on rarer occasions,
>but I have found some.  I questioned {HeD nagh} when the water was apparently
>eating its way through the rock.  I "felt" that {HeD} means "moving in
>retreat."  I did not comprehend that "a portion of the rock was retreating
>from the water," meaning that that portion was actually being forced away by

I shouldn't even comment on this, but it just seems so odd that you would
reject a priori the idea of rock moving in retreat and then misstate the
interpretation in order to "prove" your position.  The "forced away by
erosion" idea isn't part of the "rock retreats" pharse; you just assumed
or invented it.

nagh yInuD.  nagh ngoS bIQ.  mej nagh tlhIl.  tlheD.  lojchoH.  HeD.
mej nagh net raDbe'.  HeDbogh nagh qeng neH bIQ.

So what if it's a poetic image, and not a literal description of a
military act?  The concept as presented is valid, even if it is a bit
anthropomorphic.  Your interpretation of it added a feature that was
not in the original phrase.

>So, I do throw in my ideas.  You as a majority have chosen not to respect
>them.  I still let you know my ideas.  My goal remains that we all, including
>us {Hur'Iq}, get a firmer, clearer understanding of all Klingon language.

Hur'Iq SoHbe'.  ghIlab ghew SoH.

-- ghunchu'wI'

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