tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 24 11:02:25 1999

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Re: Placement of aspect suffixes

On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:08:51 -0800 (PST) [email protected] 
wrote:

> In a message dated 2/23/1999 10:05:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
> 
> << Do you honestly believe that we have formed a 
>  conspiracy of error, agreeing on a mistaken method of deciding  >>
> 
> 
> Sometimes, yes!  Several of the KLI members live in close proximity in the
> Eastern portion of the USA.  You discuss among yourselves, or use among
> yourselves, until you have formed an opinion that excludes {Hur'Iqpu'}.

If such conspiratorial communication exists, I don't know about 
it. Since I'm a person you likely suspect of participating in 
such a conspiracy, I say this in order to allay your suspicions.

Holtej is my closest KLI neighbor and he is a couple hours North 
of here. [Kvetching accent applied:] "He doesn't call. He 
doesn't write..."

> Still, since Qov became so fluent, you have accepted many of her
> interpretations (and she does not live close by you).  I often feel that if I
> had joined KLI earlier, I would have had more input into determining the
> course of Klingon you folks have enjoyed.  This does not mean that I would
> have fared better than Captain Krankor, whom you jovially keep around even
> though he speaks Klingon from another district.

Krankor was the first grammarian. He was inspirational to anyone 
who started early, since he started before they did. It was his 
prowess that inspired ~mark and a year later, it was THEIR 
prowess that inspired all who attended qep'a' wa'DIch. Next to 
Okrand, Krankor commands my deepest respect, no matter WHAT 
district he is from.

He also plays a mean guitar.

Meanwhile, I don't think it is a matter of when. It is a matter 
of attitude. I want to respect the recent request that we show 
more respect for one another and stop the insults. I likely will 
fail to do this perfectly, but I want to say sincerely that I 
personally want to include you as deeply and respectfully into 
this group as I do anyone else.

Your attitude makes it difficult. I don't want to talk about 
right and wrong. I'll reserve comment to what works and what 
doesn't work. Making obvious, persistent effort to be at the 
center of several arguments simultaneously is not a way to win 
friends and influence people.

We are here to promote the language, selflessly and communally, 
to promote communication with the language and to help one 
another improve our skills with that communication. These raging 
arguments really are distractions from that mission.

I ask you respectfully if you can try to shoot for the same 
target we seek. Less proclammation. More communication. Less 
challenging Okrand, looking for flaws in the language and more 
expression and positive discovery of the rich resources it 
already contains.

Over time, flaws will make themselves apparent to us and 
eventually to Okrand, like "How do you ask what time it is?" "It 
is hard to talk about a room when you don't have words for 
"table, wall or ceiling". And these get answered.

They don't get answered because we hammered the language creator 
with accusations about flaws. They get answered because we show 
the remarkable range of expression possible with the language 
and then, having proven our ability to do marvelous things with 
it, we point out areas that after much effort we have found no 
way around.

There is a vast difference in attitude between a respectful 
request earned by evidence of willingness to work with the tools 
that exist, and somewhat disrespectful declarations about 
missing elements that we demand be filled.

That difference in attitude has a lot more to do with your 
marginalization than any factor of timing or geography. Qov was 
accepted because she didn't exhibit that attitude. Instead, she 
impressed the hell out of us with her amazing skill and focus.

She also looks great in uniform. The word is "arresting".

Interpret it as you will.
 
> As for Qov, I have found anomalies in her interpretations on rarer occasions,
> but I have found some.  I questioned {HeD nagh} when the water was apparently
> eating its way through the rock.  I "felt" that {HeD} means "moving in
> retreat."  I did not comprehend that "a portion of the rock was retreating
> from the water," meaning that that portion was actually being forced away by
> erosion.

We work through these things. She made an honest effort and 
accepted feedback from it respectfully.
 
> So, I do throw in my ideas.  You as a majority have chosen not to respect
> them. 

I honestly believe that some of the ideas are rejected because 
they don't seem to have much merit, like the idea that a wish is 
equal to a toast, while other ideas are rejected because your 
attitude is openly disrespectful, declarative, challenging... 
You pick fights. Your fights dominate the list for weeks at a 
time more than any other single individual and you seem to like 
this. You don't seem to recognize that the unnecessary angst 
shuts down quieter voices who have as much right to speak here 
as you do. You do not express a sense of respect for community, 
supporting others in their efforts to be here.

That is the most pervasive thing I see in OTHER people's 
attitude here. We support each other in our efforts to be here. 
You seem singularly concerned about your own efforts to be here. 
If you express much support for others here, I've missed it and 
I apologize for my oversight.

> I still let you know my ideas.  My goal remains that we all, including
> us {Hur'Iq}, get a firmer, clearer understanding of all Klingon language.

You don't need to be a {Hur'Iq}. The circle is open if you will 
but join it, supportive of all members rather than expecting all 
members to support you as you present idea after idea after idea 
without much concern for your hit rate or how interested others 
may be in those ideas. It looks like the ideas are a shallow 
excuse for attention.

I wish it looked different than that. I wish I could do 
something to help this situation. That's what I'm trying to do 
here and now.
 
> peHruS

charghwI' 'utlh

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