tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 10 16:09:30 1999
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RE: Another question for pagh (KLBC)
- From: "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: Another question for pagh (KLBC)
- Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:09:53 -0700
jatlh ngenDa' la':
> pagh,
> Okay then, what about prepositional phrases? Does the p.p.
> become the object of the sentence and therefore become the
> first thing said?
Basically no.
> Example: (In english because I'm on a fact finding mission!):
> I gave my really powerful phaser to the soldier.
>
> <<To the soldier my really powerful phaser I gave it>>. That
> sounds REALLY wierd, but is it correct?
Of course it sounds weird. It's an intermediate stage in your internal
translation process. It's not English and it's not Klingon. The endpoints
are supposed to make sense to everyone, but what happens in between will
not. I know that a significant number of people here read and speak Klingon
without mental translation, so there is nothing in between for them.
I don't generally want to comment on your mental process, but I will say one
thing. The "to" would be better as a "for". Read on to find out why.
> If it is then I don't
> have a problem (per say) except that I have to get used to it.
> Do we use <<Daq>> as the preposition, you know giving it
> <<to>>? I thought that <<Daq>> was a locator for a noun as in
> "Go to the store" (To the store, you go there.). Like I said,
> if the only thing I have to do is get used to it, then so be
> it. I've learned to adjust to more difficult things than this.
> I just don't want to sound like a *Pakled* speaking Klingon
> with a bad accent!
We all sound like <paqleDpu'> with bad accents next to real Klingons. Unless
you can spend a pretty significant chunk of time in a community of native
speakers, you will never really master any language, and that doesn't seem
likely with Klingon.
> So if you could spare (a few more) words
> of wisdom on this fledgling Klingon student, it'd be much
> appreciated!
My first piece of advice is simple: try it! Instead of asking about Klingon,
write some Klingon and see what you got right and wrong. You'll learn faster
that way.
Your specific examples would be the following in Klingon:
mangvaD pu'wIj HoSghajqu' vInob - I gave my really powerful phaser to the
soldier.
Suy qach vIjaH - I went to the store (merchant building).
And now for a detailed explanation:
Klingon does not have prepositional phrases, and there are a whole host of
different ways Klingon handles prepositional concepts. Here are many of the
important ones:
The locative noun suffix <-Daq>. This suffix is often translated as
at/on/in/around, and often as to/toward. It tells the reader that the action
of the sentence takes place at or is directed toward the noun with <-Daq>.
Examples:
pa'wIjDaq jIHtaH - I am in my room.
raSDaq Hoqra' vItu' - I found the tricorder on the table.
juHDaq maSop - We ate at home.
romuluS DujDaq cha vIbaH - I fired the torpedoes at the Romulan ship.
The noun suffix <-vo'>. This is much like the suffix <-Daq>, except that the
action is directed away from the noun. Examples:
raSvo' pum Hoqra' - The tricorder fell off the table.
juHvo' mayIt - We walked from the house.
Some verbs, including <bav>, <jaH>, <ghoS>, and <chegh>, include a locative
meaning. They just take the location as an object. The trouble with this is
that Marc Okrand has only recently clarified this, and we are still a bit
unsure on which verbs this applies to. Verbs we don't know about include
<yIt>, <qet>, <puv>, and <vIH>. Examples we do know about:
juH wIjaH - We will go to the house.
HeDon boghoS - Y'all followed a parallel course.
yuQ bav Duj - The ship orbits (around) the planet.
yaHwIj vIchegh - I returned to my duty station.
The noun suffix <-vaD>. English often uses the preposition "to" to indicate
indirect objects, as in "I gave my really powerful phaser to the soldier".
While the action may indeed be directed toward the soldier, that's not what
"to" really means here. The important thing is that the soldier receives the
phaser. Examples:
mangvaD pu'wIj HoSghajqu' vInob - I gave my really powerful phaser to the
soldier.
ghojmoHwI'vaD lutlIj DaQIj - You explain your story to the teacher.
Klingon has a whole bunch of spatial nouns that often get translated as
pronouns in English. Here is a partial list:
'em - area behind
tlhop - area in front
Dung - area overhead
bIng - area underneath
joj - area between
retlh - area beside, next to
These nouns are generally used in posessive constructions like <DaSmeymaj
bIngDaq> - "under our boots" (lit. "in the area underneath our boots"). Note
that these nouns never take posessive suffixes (outside the Sakrej region
anyway). Instead, the pronoun is put before the noun. Examples:
qach retlhDaq - "Beside the building"
jIH tlhopDaq - "In front of me"
SoH jIH je jojDaq - "Between you and me"
Other spatial nouns that might be of use:
Dop - side
poS - left
nIH - right
qoD - interior
Hur - outside
botlh - center, middle
naDev - here, hereabouts
pa' - there, over there, thereabouts
Dat - everywhere
vogh - somewhere
wutlh - underground
The conecpts of "near" and "far" are expressed with the verbs <Sum> and
<Hop>, respectively. They are perfectly normal verbs, and can be used
adjectivally. The point of view is always assumed to be the speaker.
Examples:
Sum paq - The book is nearby.
HuDmey Hop vIleghlaHbe' - I cannot see the far away mountains.
pagh
Beginners' Grammarian
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