tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 05 19:01:18 1998

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RE: KLBC Shakespears Sisters lyrics.

lab Zrajm:
> 
> I've tried to translate a few lines from Shakespears Sister's 
> "Stay" into Klingon. And just wondered how I was doing. Could the 
> grammarian take a look at this?

Often beginners choose to post a translation of Shakespeare for their first
post. Shakespeare's Sister is probably not any better. You need to be able
to express your OWN ideas before you can even think about translating
somebody else's. 

> Is there a way to say "pray to (a god or diety)" in Klingon, 
> or can I use {qoy'} "plead, beg" as if it meant that?

<qoy'> seems to fit the idea quite well.

>   You better hope an pray that you make it safe back to your 
> own world. {qo'lIjDaq bIcheghchu'; 'e' Datul 'ej 'e' Daqoy'.}

> Here I think I'm saying "To return perfectly to your realm, 
> you hope that and you beg (for) that." But how can I say "it 
> would be best if...", "It would be good if you.."? Or pehaps 
> all this Klingon thinking have gotten me completely off track. 
> =|:-)

Grammatically, this is not too bad. You did not express the "you better ..."
idea very well - your sentence is just a statement of fact. You might be
able to use the "need" suffix <-nIS> or the imperative prefix <yI-> for
this.

Also, I don't believe <qoy'> can take an object like this. I may be wrong,
but I think <qoy'> is probably intransitive and cannot take an object at
all.

> Also, If I use the {'e'} pronoun, referring to the previous 
> sentence as a whole (as I do here) can I do this twice in the 
> same sentence? Like in {'e' Datul 'ej 'e' Daqoy'} above. Or 
> would the last {'e' Daqoy'} refer to the part of this sentence 
> before the {'ej}?

That's a good question, and I don't think I can provide a definitive answer.
I will say that <... 'e' Datul 'ej Daqoy'> would work at least as well,
though, and it flows a little bit better.

>   You better hope and pray that you wake one day in your own world.
>   {wa' jaj qo'lIjDaq bIvem; 'e' Datul 'ej 'e' Daqoy'.}

Same comments as above about <'e' Datul 'ej Daqoy'>.

> Perhaps there is a better/easier way to say "some time", "any 
> day" or "in the future"? Otherwise what I said about the previous 
> sentence pretty much applies here too.. (I think I am saying 
> something like "One day, you in your realm will wake, you hope 
> that and you beg (for) that."

Oh, my. <wa' jaj> just does not work. Klingon does not really have a way to
say "someday". The only general word for "in the future" is <tugh> - soon.
Other than that, you probably need to use <leS> or <nem> to specify when the
event is going to happen.

>   'Cause when you sleep at night, they dont hear you cries in 
>   your own word.
>   {bIQongtaHvIS, bIjach, qo'lIjDaq 'e' Qoybe'.}
> 
> I think I'm saying "When you sleep, they don't hear you scream 
> in your realm." Is there another way to say this, that bears a close 
> resemblence to the original line?

I'd put the <qo'lIjDaq> at the beginning of the whole sentence, and the
prefix on <Qoybe'> should be <lu>. Other than that, this is grammatially
fine.

>   Only time would tell if you can break the spell back in 
> your own world
>   {qo'lIjDaq bIchegh'eghmoHlaHchugh; leS 'e' Sovlu'.}
> 
> Here I think Im saying something like: "If you're able to 
> return yourself to your own word, it will be known days 
> from now."

The "[be able to] return yourself to your own world" is quite good. The <leS
'e' Sovlu'> just doesn't work, and I really don't know what to do with it. I
will point out that whenever you see <'e' X-lu'>, you should replace it with
<net X> - that's what <net> is for.


On a surface level, this was not too bad. You have a fairly good knowledge
of Klingon grammar, and you came up with some fairly decent sentences. The
problem is that these sentences do not capture the feeling of the song at
all. This is a very literal attempt at translating a song which is not well
suited to it. It comes off a bit like Pat Boone singing Little Richard songs
- the words are all there, but the meaning is completely lost.

To translate someone else's writing, especially song lyrics or poetry, you
have to have a deep understanding of the meaning of the work, and you have
to have the tools to express that complex meaning in the new language. You
don't have the tools to express these kinds of complex ideas in Klingon yet.
You should start with posts describing you drive to work or school, or your
dinner with your friends, or anything else you care to write about in YOUR
life. You need to be able to write simple sentences to describe simple
events and ideas of your own without effort before you try to use complex
sentences to translate somebody else's complex ideas.


pagh
Beginners' Grammarian

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