tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Mar 10 22:17:21 1998

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Re: Theo

In a message dated 98-03-10 10:27:21 EST, ghunchu'wI' writes to peHruS:

<< qatlh reH <jonta'> DamuSHa'?  qechHeyvaD taQqu' mu'vam.
 jonta' ghaj Duj.  jaHmoH jonta'.  [nujaHmoHmeH Doch DInej.]
 chaq mIqta' DaDel.  chaq jan 'oH.  jonta' 'oHbe' Dochvam'e'.
 
 <jan> <mIqta'> ghap yIlo'choH jay'!
 
 >yaHmo' 'oghwI'mey law' should read yaHmo' Dochmey law' 'oghta'bogh Madam C.
 >Walker.  mu' {yaH} DayajmeH TKD p185 yIlaD.  FYI, Walker produced many of
the
 >hair care products and/or their forerunners which women now enjoy.
 
 jIb Say'moHbogh taS'e' Daqel'a'?  qech DaQIjHa'bejpu' lutlIj.
 
 >Qe' 'oSbe' Sojqach.  Soj wIje'meH Sojqach wIghoS.  Sojqachvo' Soj wItlhap
'ej
 >juHmajDaq machegh.  
 
 qachvamvo' Soj wItlhap'a'?  "warehouse" 'oH'a'?  wej jIyaj.
 
 >Sojqach wIghoSpa' Soj wIje' wIneHbogh wIngu'nIS, vaj tetlh wIghItlh.
 
 toH!  "shopping list" DaDel, qar'a'?  DaH jIyajchoH.  
 Soj Suy'e' luSuchba' Theo SoSDaj je.  
 ram qach.  pIj HurDaq Soj je'lu'.
 
 >As for baS ghItlhwI', I have seen reference in canon (Voragh, please help me
 >find it) that this is the way tlhIngan Hol says "made of metal".  
 
 The reference is in KGT, {Sor Hap yoD} "wooden shield" or something
 similar.  The use of {Hap} tempers my enthusiasm for {baS ghItlhwI'}, 
 though I'm not going to reject it out of hand.  
 
 >We do not put the Noun baS after ghItlhwI' as if it were an Adjective.
 
 Attributive nouns do go before the nouns they modify, but I'm not sure
 just how far past simple possession the noun-noun construction can be 
 taken.  Today, "metal stylus" is right on the edge of acceptability.
 
 >{De' ghItlhwI' jonta'}, let's guess at this one for another week.  The one's
 >we have not yet figured out by then, I'll give away.  Then, you all can try
 >your hand at how you would have translated them, if not merely with
asterisks
 >around the English words.
 
 Qu'vatlh ghuy'cha' baQa', peHruS!  Are we to be forced to play a 
 guessing game in order to know what you mean?  Okay, based on your 
 misuse of <jonta'> to refer to any sort of mechanical contraption, 
 I'll guess that you meant "typewriter".  But I have no confidence 
 that I'm right, so I figure nobody wins.  You haven't caused me to
 understand clearly, and I haven't understood clearly.  Adequate
 communication has not taken place.
 
 >{jen} means "be high" according to TKD.  In several other languages I know,
 >there is only one word for "be high" and for "be tall".  I don't feel
 >comfortable with {runHa'}, except for describing a person's stature as "not
 >short".
 
 Try {tIq}.  When explaining the difference between {'ab} and {'aD}, 
 Okrand mentioned that {tIq} "be long" works to describe how tall 
 something is (if that something is customarily measured in one
 dimension, such as a warrior's height).  It seems quite proper to 
 refer to grass as being "long".
 
 >{QuQ qoDDaq nIn meQmeH Hujchu'bogh pat mIqta'}:  First of all, {Huj} has
 >another meaning besides "strange, bizarre".
 
 That "other meaning" is generally a transitive one.  You've used {Huj}
 intransitively, so "strange" seems the more likely translation.  Only 
 after I'd puzzled over this for a while did I figure out what you seem
 to be referring to.  I've got a training classroom next door to me 
 with an electronic ignition system demonstrator, complete with working
 spark plugs, so I might have a bit of an advantage over most people.
 
 "The system's machinery which completely charges in order to burn
 fuel in the interior of an engine" is still very vague, though.  If 
 you mean the coil, I'd expect {peQ chem} to have appeared somewhere. 
 Or are you referring a capacitive system?
 
 And it's odd that you'd suddenly start using the word {mIqta'} when
 talking about {QuQ}.
 
 >{wej}.  They've traveled back in time, along with everything they own,
 >providing it's been invented in the new time frame???  Almost.  They are in
 >the present world, but without any of the inventions or subsequent
inventions
 >of the previous time.
 
 vaj qatlh <wej> Dajatlh?
 
 >{lupwI' nubwI'}.  Unless we've proven that TKD's {nubwI'} is a typo for
 >{nungwI'}, read up on what it means!
 
 But "transporter's predecessor" doesn't say much either.  Unless 
 you're specifically taking the "bus" meaning of {lupwI'} and ignoring 
 the "jitney (vehicle that takes passengers on a route for a fare)" 
 meaning, an electric trolley is still a {lupwI'}.
 
 >Elevator:  Does the English word say anything about "lowering people"?  I
 >kinda like my translation, {nuvpu' SalmoHwI'}.  I might leave of the
 >pluralizer next time.
 
 You're translating the English word, then, instead of describing the 
 object well.  One might give the same argument for using {toghwI'} as 
 a translation of a flat surface used for food preparation. :-P
 
 >{pIn'a'} has been used for "boss" to distinguish it from merely {pIn},
 >"director/foreman".
  >>

-----peHruS continues-----
jonta', QuQ, mIqta' I will practise more.

The question of {yaH} has not been addressed adequately.  I like the way I
have used it; but, no one seems to have caught on to this use.

ghunchu'wI' is correct:  Madam C. Walker initially produced many of the hair
care products women now use, or at least the forerunners thereof.

Sojqach <> Qe' <> "warehouse".  What else might a Sojqach be?  Especially in
light of the fact that Theo and his mother have made a "shopping list"?

QuQ qoDDaq nIn meQmeH Hujchu'bogh pat mIqta' = supercharger for internal
combustion engines.  Klingon verbs are not so unambiguous as to when they are
transitive and the object is an understood "it".

lupwI' nubwI' = electric trolley.  That one you have figured out correctly.
It was not easy to find tlhIngan Hol equivalents for Terran things.  Yes, I
took the literal "jitney/bus" for {lupwI'}.  Charging fares is okay.  I merely
translated "bus' precedessor".

As for elevator, I fear that I have fallen into the trap of translating only
the English word, not the full concept that it also takes people downward.

As for {pIn'a'}, I agree that {pIn} is adequate.

And, finally, {'uywI' beQwI'} comes earlier on, but I'll leave it for more
speculation for now.

In conclusion, this article was posted for communication, not guessing games.
Still, when we do not have tlhIngan Hol words for Terran objects, I was glad
for the challenge in translating those terms; please you all be glad for the
challenge for reading them as part of the communication.

Thanks,  Qapla'    peHruS

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