tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Mar 10 07:17:17 1998
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Re: Theo
- From: [email protected] (Alan Anderson)
- Subject: Re: Theo
- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 98 08:29:47 EST
I was going to let most of this pass. After all, peHruS *is* writing
lots of quite grammatical Klingon, and I didn't want to get *too*
nit-picky over little things. But his response to SuStel pushed a
button...
ja' peHruS:
>"iron" 'oSbe' {'uywI' beQwI'}. yIloyqa'!
pIyajmeH maQujnIS 'e' Daqap'a'? yajchugh pagh, pIch ghajba' qonwI'.
Sut vIqeltaHvIS <'uywI' beQwI'> "press-downer's flat thing" vIlaD.
wa' Doch neH vIloyqang; "iron" 'oHba'qu'. vImujmo', jImISchu'.
maloy wIneHbe'. mayaj wIneH. maloy yIneHQo'! mayaj yIneH!
jIloyqa'Qo'. ghoyajmoH SoH.
>paq HamletDaq mu' {beQwI'} botu'laH.
[Just as a matter of style, I find it very hard to read through the
contant apposition I'm encountering here.]
You used {beQwI'} in the context of fixing wrinkled clothes. You
might have had Hamlet in mind when you wrote it, but we certainly
didn't when we read it.
>tlhoS "shoe lasting machine" Daloypu'. majQa'. nuq 'oH jonta' Seghvam'e'
>DaHjaj 'e' Sovbe' Hoch ghotpu'. jIQuptaHvIS wa' jonta' Seghvam ghaj SoSwI'.
qatlh reH <jonta'> DamuSHa'? qechHeyvaD taQqu' mu'vam.
jonta' ghaj Duj. jaHmoH jonta'. [nujaHmoHmeH Doch DInej.]
chaq mIqta' DaDel. chaq jan 'oH. jonta' 'oHbe' Dochvam'e'.
<jan> <mIqta'> ghap yIlo'choH jay'!
>yaHmo' 'oghwI'mey law' should read yaHmo' Dochmey law' 'oghta'bogh Madam C.
>Walker. mu' {yaH} DayajmeH TKD p185 yIlaD. FYI, Walker produced many of the
>hair care products and/or their forerunners which women now enjoy.
jIb Say'moHbogh taS'e' Daqel'a'? qech DaQIjHa'bejpu' lutlIj.
>Qe' 'oSbe' Sojqach. Soj wIje'meH Sojqach wIghoS. Sojqachvo' Soj wItlhap 'ej
>juHmajDaq machegh.
qachvamvo' Soj wItlhap'a'? "warehouse" 'oH'a'? wej jIyaj.
>Sojqach wIghoSpa' Soj wIje' wIneHbogh wIngu'nIS, vaj tetlh wIghItlh.
toH! "shopping list" DaDel, qar'a'? DaH jIyajchoH.
Soj Suy'e' luSuchba' Theo SoSDaj je.
ram qach. pIj HurDaq Soj je'lu'.
>As for baS ghItlhwI', I have seen reference in canon (Voragh, please help me
>find it) that this is the way tlhIngan Hol says "made of metal".
The reference is in KGT, {Sor Hap yoD} "wooden shield" or something
similar. The use of {Hap} tempers my enthusiasm for {baS ghItlhwI'},
though I'm not going to reject it out of hand.
>We do not put the Noun baS after ghItlhwI' as if it were an Adjective.
Attributive nouns do go before the nouns they modify, but I'm not sure
just how far past simple possession the noun-noun construction can be
taken. Today, "metal stylus" is right on the edge of acceptability.
>{De' ghItlhwI' jonta'}, let's guess at this one for another week. The one's
>we have not yet figured out by then, I'll give away. Then, you all can try
>your hand at how you would have translated them, if not merely with asterisks
>around the English words.
Qu'vatlh ghuy'cha' baQa', peHruS! Are we to be forced to play a
guessing game in order to know what you mean? Okay, based on your
misuse of <jonta'> to refer to any sort of mechanical contraption,
I'll guess that you meant "typewriter". But I have no confidence
that I'm right, so I figure nobody wins. You haven't caused me to
understand clearly, and I haven't understood clearly. Adequate
communication has not taken place.
>{jen} means "be high" according to TKD. In several other languages I know,
>there is only one word for "be high" and for "be tall". I don't feel
>comfortable with {runHa'}, except for describing a person's stature as "not
>short".
Try {tIq}. When explaining the difference between {'ab} and {'aD},
Okrand mentioned that {tIq} "be long" works to describe how tall
something is (if that something is customarily measured in one
dimension, such as a warrior's height). It seems quite proper to
refer to grass as being "long".
>{QuQ qoDDaq nIn meQmeH Hujchu'bogh pat mIqta'}: First of all, {Huj} has
>another meaning besides "strange, bizarre".
That "other meaning" is generally a transitive one. You've used {Huj}
intransitively, so "strange" seems the more likely translation. Only
after I'd puzzled over this for a while did I figure out what you seem
to be referring to. I've got a training classroom next door to me
with an electronic ignition system demonstrator, complete with working
spark plugs, so I might have a bit of an advantage over most people.
"The system's machinery which completely charges in order to burn
fuel in the interior of an engine" is still very vague, though. If
you mean the coil, I'd expect {peQ chem} to have appeared somewhere.
Or are you referring a capacitive system?
And it's odd that you'd suddenly start using the word {mIqta'} when
talking about {QuQ}.
>{wej}. They've traveled back in time, along with everything they own,
>providing it's been invented in the new time frame??? Almost. They are in
>the present world, but without any of the inventions or subsequent inventions
>of the previous time.
vaj qatlh <wej> Dajatlh?
>{lupwI' nubwI'}. Unless we've proven that TKD's {nubwI'} is a typo for
>{nungwI'}, read up on what it means!
But "transporter's predecessor" doesn't say much either. Unless
you're specifically taking the "bus" meaning of {lupwI'} and ignoring
the "jitney (vehicle that takes passengers on a route for a fare)"
meaning, an electric trolley is still a {lupwI'}.
>Elevator: Does the English word say anything about "lowering people"? I
>kinda like my translation, {nuvpu' SalmoHwI'}. I might leave of the
>pluralizer next time.
You're translating the English word, then, instead of describing the
object well. One might give the same argument for using {toghwI'} as
a translation of a flat surface used for food preparation. :-P
>{pIn'a'} has been used for "boss" to distinguish it from merely {pIn},
>"director/foreman".
What dictionary are you using? {pIn} "boss" appears in TKD, and
the addendum has {pIn'a'} "master". I'd be most likely to translate
"director/foreman" as {DevwI'}.
>{nganpu' qIj Hutlhchugh tera', ghu' ngu' Theo}: tlhIngan Hol not only does
>not focus on tenses, it does not focus on voices. This sentence was designed
>with subjunctive mood resounding throughout my brain. I would like to revise
>the second half of the sentence: pIm tera' ghu' 'e' tlhoj Theo.
tlhIngan Hol also does not express subjunctive mood well at all. Your
sentence fails to indicate what was in your mind when you designed it.
>For those of you who are reading down to the last line:
Hoch'e' vIlaD 'e' yISov.
>qIjbe'chugh wo'rIv Dabogh loD, Michael Dorn, chay' mavang je maH? chay'
>maruch je maH? chay' majech? chay' qabDu'maj DIDIj?
nuqjatlh? qayaj 'e' DaDubbe'.
"If Michael Dorn, the man who acts like Worf, isn't black, how do *we*
also take action? How do *we* also do it? How do we disguise? How
do we use pigment sticks them/slide a sword blade across opponent's
them, our faces?"
qatlh potlh DawI' DIr qIj? qayajbe'chu'. qIjbe' Robert O'Reilly.
qIjbe' Michael Ansara, John Colicos je. qIjbe' William Campbell.
qIjbe' Suzie Plaxton. nuq Dajatlh 'e' DanID? Seng vIleghbe' jIH.
-- ghunchu'wI'