tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 11 09:06:39 1998
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Re: Theo
- From: [email protected] (Alan Anderson)
- Subject: Re: Theo
- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 98 10:21:33 EST
>-----peHruS continues-----
>jonta', QuQ, mIqta' I will practise more.
>
>The question of {yaH} has not been addressed adequately. I like the way I
>have used it; but, no one seems to have caught on to this use.
What do you mean by "no one seems to have caught on to this use"?
I've seen the verb {yaH} used on occasion. It's in the dictionary,
for goodness' sake -- what's there to "catch on to"?
Your original post looked like it was talking about "lots of scattered
inventors", and from that mistaken context the noun "duty station" was
the more reasonable interpretation when *I* read it. With the correct
(I assume) reference to "many things which [she] invented", the verbal
"be taken away" meaning is the obvious one.
>ghunchu'wI' is correct: Madam C. Walker initially produced many of the hair
>care products women now use, or at least the forerunners thereof.
Yes, you said that in your previous message. That's why I guessed
you were trying to talk about hair-cleaning liquids. But isn't Theo
in this tale a boy, not a woman? And wasn't his mother trying to
"flatten" his hair? You did a poor job of explaining this idea; I'm
still not really sure what your original story was talking about.
>Sojqach <> Qe' <> "warehouse". What else might a Sojqach be? Especially in
>light of the fact that Theo and his mother have made a "shopping list"?
{Sojqach} *means* "food-building". Period. It might be many things.
Let me quote my previous response:
>>toH! "shopping list" DaDel, qar'a'? DaH jIyajchoH.
>>Soj Suy'e' luSuchba' Theo SoSDaj je.
>>ram qach. pIj HurDaq Soj je'lu'.
If they made a shopping list, then they obviously went shopping. But
that doesn't mean they went to a building in order to do it. If you
want to tell us that they went to a "grocery store" then you should
use a phrase which expresses the idea of a "store". That *you* buy
your food inside a building is not important, and merely obscures the
idea of buying food. There are many open-air markets in the world.
>QuQ qoDDaq nIn meQmeH Hujchu'bogh pat mIqta' = supercharger for internal
>combustion engines. Klingon verbs are not so unambiguous as to when they are
>transitive and the object is an understood "it".
They're a lot less ambiguous if they're used to express ideas instead
of to translate words. A "supercharger" doesn't do anything like
"charging up". It moves air quickly to provide a source of oxidizer
for the combustion process, allowing more fuel to be burned. (It's
also powered directly from the rotating engine, in case the specific
technology is important to the description of this invention. By
contrast, a "turbocharger" takes its power from the pressure of the
engine's exhaust gases.)
>lupwI' nubwI' = electric trolley. That one you have figured out correctly.
>It was not easy to find tlhIngan Hol equivalents for Terran things. Yes, I
>took the literal "jitney/bus" for {lupwI'}. Charging fares is okay. I merely
>translated "bus' precedessor".
*I* didn't figure it out, I just read what SuStel wrote. And if you
had thought about the literal "jitney", you'd probably have realized
that it's also a reasonable translation for "trolley".
>And, finally, {'uywI' beQwI'} comes earlier on, but I'll leave it for more
>speculation for now.
>
>In conclusion, this article was posted for communication, not guessing games.
Which is it, peHruS? Are we or aren't we supposed to guess? Do you
intend for us to communicate or to speculate? We are already unable
to understand this {'uywI' beQwI'} idea with the existing clues. If
you still want us to try to figure it out, describe it in more detail
so we have a chance.
>Still, when we do not have tlhIngan Hol words for Terran objects, I was glad
>for the challenge in translating those terms; please you all be glad for the
>challenge for reading them as part of the communication.
Part of what frustrates me so about this "challenge" is that you are
skilled enough to make perfect sense if you put just a tiny bit more
thought into the words you use. Your command of Klingon grammar is
commendable, and your willingness to listen to debate is acceptable.
It's your choice of words that leaves me struggling to comprehend what
you are trying to say. They're not so literal that I can read them in
English after translating them back, but they're literal enough that
the meaning in Klingon is unobvious. A lot of the problem seems to be
your predilection for describing things with convoluted noun phrases,
where a couple of short sentences would likely do a much better job.
I've found that concentrating more on what something *does* than on
what it *is* fits the structure of Klingon well, and it tends to yield
better communication.
-- ghunchu'wI'