tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jul 13 11:38:03 1998

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Re: KLBC - pabwIj vIlugh 'ej mu'tlheghmey chu' vIqon

---Burt Clawson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> KLBC - pabwIj vIlugh 'ej mu'tlheghmey chu' vIqon

lugh is "be correct" so to "make something be correct" you add the
cause suffix. {-moH}.  

pabwIj vIlughmoH - I correct my grammar. 

You can decide in light of the new word {gher} (hope you kept that
message) whether you /gher/ or /qon/ your sentences.  :)

> Hoj vavwI' loDnI' puqloD; tera'ngan rur.  chaq muvrup vIponlaHDI'.

Your cousin is as cautious as a terran. Perhaps he will be ready to
join as oon as you can persuade him?

> tlhIngan Hol vIghojlI'.

chaq.  chaq wIghojtaH.  When I started I thought vIghojlI', but Marc
Okrand is keeping ahead of me.

> tera' Hol bom vIgherba'ta' HaghtaHvIS Hoch.

A bom you /qon/.  Or are you really deriding your songwriting?

> wa'maH losHu' juHmaj wa'DIchvo' juHDaq pIm mavIH 'ej SochHu' mavIH
> rIntaH.

Reread 4.4.  /juH pImDaq/.  Bear in mind that "we moved from one house
to another" in Klingon doesn't necessarily imply moving your
furniture, changing your address, etc.  It could be merely visiting. 
You can only be sure it means that you exhibited motion beteen the two
locations.  Klingon might have a separate word for the concept, or it
might be an additional gloss of some other verb implying motion,
transport etc.

> bong romuluSngan 'ajvaD qagh Qop vIjabpu' 'ach tu'pu' ghaH'e'.

You want to say "I accidentally served dead qagh to the Romulan
admiral, but s/he noticed"?  Or "I had served ... but he had noticed."
 Relative to what?  Don't try to use perfective suffixes to indicate
past tense. It doesn't work.  Also the topicalizer on /ghaH/ is a
little excessive.  /tu'/ - s/he/it noticed.  /tu' ghaH/ - s/he
noticed.  /tu' ghaH'e'/  *s/he* noticed.  As opposed to whom?

{bong romuluSngan 'ajvaD qagh Qop vIjab 'ach tu' ghaH.} adequately
translates "I accidentally served dead qagh to the Romulan admiral,
but s/he noticed"?

> How would you say "very slowly?"
> Perhaps:  QIt QIt Hoch vIghojtaH.

Heh.  I'd certainly use that in speech.  Looks funny written, doesn't
it?  Not wrong, though.

> > > better. To be strictly correct, the <tu'lu'> should probably be
> > > <lutu'lu'>, but the <lu-> prefix is often left off, especially on
> > > <tu'lu'>.
> 4.2.5. Type 5: Indefinite subject/ability
> meqleHDaj nIHlu'pu'.
> vIwoHlu'.
> boDevlu'.
> wIruplu'.
> OK, if I understand how this is working, then the example in TKD:
naDev
> puqpu' tu'lu' "there are children around here," shouldn't it be: naDev
> puqpu' lutu'lu'?

Right on.  In fact, Okrand has always left it off tu'lu'.  It's
technically a violation of grammar, but it's commonly done.  I bet you
can think of a lot of those in your own language.  I call /lutu'lu'/
"the Klingon 'whom'."

> 6.2.2. Subordinate clauses
> yepqu'chu' Hur'Iq tlhIngan yejquv ja'taHneSvIS.

/-neS/ doesn't indicate *Hur'Iq*'s respect to the people he is
addressing.  It indicates your, the speaker of the sentence,'s respect
for the person you are addressing. (Love my abuse of English 's?)  

wa' 'avwI' luHoHpu'neS lotlhwI'
"The rebels have killed one guard, noble sire."

nuqDaq 'oHneS puchpa''e'?
"I pray you, your honour, where is the washroom?"

Possibly even ...
targh yIngaghneS yIruch
"With all due repect sir, go screw a targ."

> Ha'DIbaH DaSaHba'chugh tlhabDajvaD yInob.  cheghbe'chugh 'oH yIwam 'ej
> yIHoH!

Got that backwards.  /'oHvaD tlhabDaj yInob/ IF freedom can be
/nob/ed.  Much better to say, /yItlhabmoH/.  Hmm. That's two /-moH/
errors in one posting.  Your assignment: five good demonstrations of
the usefulness of /-moH/.  The /'oH/ is pretty redundant there. 
/yIwam 'ej yIHoH/ is sufficient of itself.

> ghe'naQ nIt botIvlaHpa' no' Hol bogh ojnIS 'ej bom mu' boHaDchu'.

Is there a noun /bogh/?  I'm not following.  "Before you can enjoy
Klingon classical opera, ancestors ... language ... born ... needs to
be something (first letter missing) ... and you will thoroughly study
the lyrics."  I suspected you were translating out of KGT, but I
couldn't find it.

> voDleH lIngta' vIparHa'qu'mo' chanDoq law' pol be'nalwI'.

maj.

> not lujjaj chuyDaHlIj.

Grin.  maj.

> 6.2.3. Relative clauses {-bogh}
> I'm having real trouble understanding these.

Looks like you get it.

> lIy 'oHbe' lIy Daleghpu'bogh.
> [The comet you saw was no comet.]

That one's a little awkward because PTB calls for the topic noun to
have the -'e' suffix, and that's hard to do when what you have is a
noun phrase.

/lIy Daleghpu'bogh/ is "the comet you have seen" or "the comet you
will have seen."

> vavlI' HoHta'bogh jaghmeyma' vIHoHta' jIH'e'.
> [I killed out enemies who killed your father.]

You're doing that thing with the perfective.  Leave it off.

/vavlI' luHoHbogh jaghmeyma'/ (watch those prefixes) could be either
"our enemies who killed your father" or "your father, whom our enemies
killed."  It should be pretty obvious which party you killed, but if
you want to be explicit you could say:

vavlI' luHoHbogh jaghmeyma''e' vIHoH jIH'e'.

You use -'e' to identify the real head of the clause.

Note that /vIHoH jIH'e'/ puts a LOT of emphasis on "I."

possible translations, to show the degree of emphasis:

vIHoH - I killed them
vIHoH jIH - I myself killed them
vIHoH jIH'e' - It was indeed I myself, who killed them
 
I suspect you think you are required to use {-'e'} on a pronoun that
ends a sentence.  You're not, and if you can explain why you were
doing it, I can clear that up better for you and others who might have
the same misapprehension.

Now for /-bogh/, try 
"I dislike the tribble that you are stroking."  
"The tribble I am stroking saved my father."
"How can a grain-stealing tribble save anyone?"
"Don't insult the animal I admire."
And make up one or two more of your own.

Why do my sentences *always* seem to involve tribbles?

==
Qov - Beginners' Grammarian 

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