tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Nov 30 20:31:19 1997
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Re: tlhoghtay
I was beginning to think that I would never hear back.
This may get long.
The first line was:
> >vajpu' cha' tlhInganpu' batlh roSbogh tlhogtay wIleghmeH naDev maH.
We are here to witness the rite of marriage binding two honourable
Klingon warriors.
I can see how vajpu' and tlhInganpu' conflict, but I am not certain how
to enter the "honourable".
As for roSbogh, I have no idea where I found that word. I believe I was
trying to say "tie together" instead of "bind", but that still does not
explain the translation.
Should it then be:
thlIngan SuvwI'pu' cha' quv law' muv tlhoghtay wIleghmeH naDev maH.
> Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
> Also note that in KGT we're told that "vaj" only means a warrior in
> general, sort of the Platonic Form of a warrior, not a specific
> person.
Where?
> "The marriage ceremony joins these Klingons and their families, and > the marriage ceremony strengthens the Empire. Who represents these > warriors?"
That is the line. Would it be:
tlhInganpu'vam qorDu'may'chaj je muv tlhoghtay 'ej wo' HoSmoH
tlhoghtay. SuvwI'pu'vam 'oS 'Iv?
> >geron jIH, 'ej QanDuj'Sogh yojneS taI Qorn vI'oS. targh pa'taH naDev > >ghaHtaH!
>
> I'm assuming "QanDuj'Sogh yojneS taI Qorn" is all the name and/or
> non-tlhIngan-Hol titles, since I can't really parse it meaningfully (I > see "Sogh" in it, and "Duj", but that's about it).
I do not know if you are at all familiar with a publication by FASA of a
Klingon role-playing game system, but it has been a reference for our
fan club in some of the cultural aspects. We have been using their
system of rank and titles for so long that I am not inclined to make
changes, whether or not it conforms to tlhIngan Hol. The explanation
for this that I will use is that these titles are from an ancient
Imperial Dialect.
Qan - those who protect, The Emperor's Guard, divisional distinction
Duj - of the Navy, HIv - of the Marines
Sogh - rank, Lieutenant
-neS - an honourific, used in formal titles to announce or when
speaking of another warrior
taI, SutaI - familial honourific titles that will change with one's
position in the House or Line
> "pa'taH" doesn't make any sense to me; "pa'" is a noun meaning "room" > or a slightly special noun meaning "there"; in neither case can it > take the verb-suffix "-taH." I don't see what "targh" is doing > either; the whole last sentence is puzzling to me. I can see "he's > here!" at the end, I guess an oblique order to force him forward?
I am sorry for the misspelling, it should be petaQ:
Here is the ^&*($ dog!
> >mIghbe'vam boj vIqem.
>
> "mIghbe'vam" is a verb-noun construct, something we are not told is > productive in Klingon. If you mean "evil woman", use "be' mIgh." > It's especially troublesome with "be'" as the noun, since "mIghbe'" > looks like "is not evil" (though that's not damning in itself, cf. > ta'be' in Hamlet). There are two main verbs in the last sentence; I > can't really see "boj" used adjectivally. If you mean "this nagging, > evil woman", I'd suggest "boj[taH]bogh be' mIgh vIqem".
The line should be:
I bring this nagging witch.
There was no word to be found for "witch" so I went with "evil woman".
bojtaHbogh be' mIgh vIqem.
> >yoj: mulaQ puQlod, yoj jIH, 'e' be'vam 'Iprar jIghoS.
I am yoj, son of mulaQ, and I come to oathbind to this woman.
> What's the "'e'" doing there? I see "*'Iprar" as an attempt to > compound "'Ip" (swear (v) or oath (n)) with "rar" (connect (v)),
Again, referring to another obscure resource, 'Iprar means "oathbind"
which is similar to swearing into a lodge, club, or as
"blood-brothers". There are different types of oathbindings from those
mentioned above to becoming a priest, taking a bar exam, entering the
military, etc.
I am not certain if your translations would be appropriate, but they
have given me something to think on.
> >qIrI: qorDu'vo' QIntar, qIrI jIH, 'e' loDvam 'Iprar jIghoS.
>
> I'd order it "QIntar qorDu' qIrI jIH" (or after KGT, "matay' QIntar > qorDu' jIH je")
Again, where in KGT? I have read most of it, but I do not recall where
this is.
> >Qar'Deth: yIjatlh
> This could be "say it!" but it sounds more like "speak!" to the two of
> them, so it should be "pejatlh".
It was meant as "Say this!" for I was unable to translate "Repeat
this!", and the persons performing the ceremony were without time to
memorize all of their lines before the convention, so they were read by
Qar'Deth and repeated by yoj and qIrI. Those lines that followed are
gibberish made up by Paramount, as I have been told, which would explain
why they cannot be translated.
Thank you.