tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 23 23:38:10 1997

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Re: KLBC: The first time, Grammar check

In a message dated 97-06-20 03:42:08 EDT, SuStel replies to peHruS' short
story:


qatlho' SuStel
batlh lutwIj tIqbe' DalughmoH
Daqmey law'Daq jIjangta'
'ej bIngachqa' 'e' vItul

<< > loS Hu' wa'netlh loS *feet*  juSbogh HuD vItoSta'bogh Qu' vIqIH
 
 "Four days ago I met (for the first time) a task of a mountain which I had 
 climbed which overtook 10,004 feet."
 
 nuqjatlh?!?

reply:

Error alert!  I left out "thousand."

loS Hu' wa'netlh loSSaD *feet* *exceed*bogh HuD vItoSta'
jIHvaD poH (?) wa'DIch 'oH Qu'vam'e'   OR
not Qu'vam vIchavpu'

 
 "Meeting a challenge" is an English metaphor; we don't know that Klingons 
 "meet for the first time" their tasks.  For all we know, they talk of 
 "beginning to fight for a task."  We have no way of knowing.
 
 HuD Dung bIng je jojDaq wa'netlh loS "feet" tu'lu'
 There are 40,004 feet from the top of the mountain to the bottom.
 
 HuD DungDaq jItoSchu'.
 I climbed all the way to the top.
 
 (Or whatever exactly you were trying to say.)
 
 > HuD nach pawpa' ghomwI' poS qamwIj tlhe'lu'
 
 "Before the open (left side?) encounterer arrived the mountain's head, my
foot 
 was turned."
 
 nuqjatlh?!?

reply:

Before my group (of sentient beings, humans) reached the summit, my left foot
was turned.

As I see the Indefinite Subject rule, "something turns the foot (Object)." 
 
The second part is probably all right, {qamwIj tlhe'lu'}, though we don't
know 
 if the subject of {tlhe'} is the one who turns or the one who makes
something 
 *else* turn.
 
 Again, you've used a metaphor to represent the "mountain's peak."  "Head" is

 fairly understandable, I suppose.
 
 And when you use {paw}, it doesn't take the place you arrive at as the
object. 
  We have that line from Power Klingon, {Qo'noSDaq paw cha' DIvI' beq}.

reply:

I have posted elsewhere evidence backing my feeling that Verbs of motion may
or may not take the locative {-Daq}.
 
 
> 'ej 'oy'choHbej *ankle*
 
 Do'Ha'!
 
 > tInchoHtaH
 
 It took me a moment to realize that you were still talking about your ankle 
 (hmmm . . . I wonder if {mov} is close enough . . .).  Repeat it as the 
 subject for clarity.
 
 tInchoH *ankle*.
 
 You don't really need {-taH} on there.  It doesn't continuously begin to get

 bigger, nor does it begin to continuously get bigger.  It just begins to get

 bigger.
 
reply:

{choH} not only means "begins."  That is actually the secondary meaning.  The
primary meaning is "changes, alters."  {tInchoHtaH} means "continues to
change to getting bigger,"  i.e., "swells."


 > loQ DIS machqu'Daq maleSpu' 'ej muQorgh wa' QelHom
 
 By adding {-pu'} in the first part, you're suggesting that this action was 
 already complete.  Nothing else you've said was already complete, so it
sounds 
 like this thing happened before any of this started.  You merely need to 
 remove the {-pu'}.
 
 > jaHqa' ghom nuvpu' pIm 'ach maloS jIH QelHom je
 
 bImorghba'.
 
 > pov povmeH jan vIlIghpu' 'ej ropyaH vIpaw
 
 "In the afternoon I had ridden a device for being excellent and [now] I 
 arrived the infirmary."
 
 What's a {povmeH jan}?

reply:

Should read {puvmeH jan}.
 


 You added an extra {-pu'} again.  The time context IS the afternoon, so you 
 don't want that there.
 
 > Do' qep'a' loSDIch vIlengpa' *crutches* vIlo'nISlaw'be'
 
 "Fortunately, before I travel qep'a' loSDIch I not-uncertainly need
crutches."
 
 Again, we have evidence that {leng} doesn't take the route traveled as the 
 object: {'Iw bIQtIqDaq bIlengjaj} "May you travel the river of blood."

reply:

Since I am not traveling "at" the qep'a' loSDIch, but rather traveling "to"
it, I stand by my post elsewhere that I have a strong feeling that Verbs of
motion include the prepositional concepts we have in English such as "to,
toward."  Your example above may imply that warriors travel "on" the river of
blood.
 

 You don't want to negate {-law'}, you want to negate {-nIS}.


reply:

jIQochbe'

 
 Is the point here that you will not need crutches before you go to the
qep'a', 
 or that you won't need them *when* you go to the qep'a'?  Use {-DI'} instead

 of {-pa'}.
 
 Do' qep'a' loSDIchDaq jIlengDI' *crutches* vIlo'nISbe'law'
 Fortunately, when I travel to qep'a' loSDIch, I shouldn't need to use 
 crutches.

reply:

I was hoping to no longer need the crutches at least a few days before I
began the journey to the conference, not as late as "as soon as" I leave for
the conference.

 
 Do'ba'.
  >>


peHruS

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