tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 09 06:27:45 1997
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: KLBC: About two things
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: About two things
- Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 13:26:43 UT
[email protected] on behalf of Rolando Coto wrote:
> 1) Is <ghItlh> a verb like <jatlh>. I mean, look these two phrases:
>
> SuStel vIghItlh.
> SuStelvaD jIghItlh.
>
> I guess the first one means something like "I write Sustel", like I wrote
> or marked that word on something, a paper, a rock, a skull, etc. I think
> the second one means "I write to Sustel", like I marked something about
> anything and then gave it to Sustel. Is all this right? And by the way, how
> do I know a verb is used like <jatlh>?
We don't have too much information on {ghItlh}. We've been given a bit more
on it than we have in TKD:
{ghItlh} "mark (upon) (v) [from "Okrand's notes," HolQeD 2:4 - "To 'mark
(upon) something' is {ghItlh}. This isn't just writing; it's any kind of
marking. (Note that {ghItlh} 'to write,' refers to the physical act of
writing. It doesn't mean 'to create a composition.')"]
I know of only one time that Okrand has used it:
ghItlh vIghItlhta'bogh DalaD'a'
Will you read my manuscript? (TKD)
These show us that the object written upon is the object of this verb. It
might also be the subject matter of the writing, but writing a manuscript may
refer to making notes in the book itself.
{SuStel vIghItlh} therefore means "I make a mark upon SuStel." Ouch!
{SuStelvaD jIghItlh} means "I make a mark (upon something in general) and this
is done to/for SuStel." Making this into a better English translation, we get
"I write to SuStel." It doesn't refer to the composition of anything, but to
the act of actually putting something in a recorded format.
As to which verbs are verbs of saying, it's tough to tell without Okrand
telling us. The ones I'm *sure* are verbs of saying are {jatlh}, {ja'},
{tlhob}, and {maq}. I'm pretty sure {jach} is one of them, and I wouldn't be
surprised to find {tlhup} among them.
> 2) I wrote this:
>
> <tera' Hovtay'Daq, DoqyuQDaq qoqDujHom luSaqmoH tera'nganpu'.
Don't make up names like that without showing us what you mean. Without the
translation, many people would have had trouble figuring out that {DoqyuQ} was
supposed to mean "Mars." When you've got a name, just keep it as it is.
tera' Hovtay'Daq, *Mars*Daq qoqDujHom luSaqmoH tera'nganpu'.
Excellent compound noun, {qoqDujHom}! And your use of {luSaqmoH} was good.
> DoqyuQ He
> tu'wI' lupongpu' logh jonwI'pu',
Again, don't translate the name.
{*Mars Pathfinder* lupongpu' logh jonwI'pu'} is perfectly grammatical. Since
we're talking about the space probe, we know *what* they name the Mars
Pathfinder. However, your original (the Spanish, that is), included "La sonda
se llama Mars Pathfinder," which translates into English as "The probe is
called Mars Pathfinder." Indeed, this is exactly how you have translated it
into English. The trick, then, is to simply realize that in Klingon, you may
sometimes want to specify what has received the name you are talking about.
'oHvaD *Mars Pathfinder* lupongpu' logh jonwI'pu'
The space engineers have named it the Mars Pathfinder.
This is identical in meaning to your original sentence, but the {'oHvaD} is
just a bit more direction for the sentence. Again, without it your sentence
is completely understandable, because we can easily see *what* gets the name,
but it's nice to be sure.
> 'ej *Sojourner* luponglu'bogh qoq lengwI'
> qeng qoqDujHom.
The subject of {pong} is unspecified, because the verb uses {-lu'}.
Therefore, {qoq lengwI'}, which is currently in the subject position of the
relative clause, cannot be in the right place. Here's where we need to use
{-vaD} for naming.
qoq lengwI'vaD *Sojourner* ponglu'bogh qeng qoqDujHom
(There is, of course, some doubt as to whether a Type 5 suffixed noun can
modify a relative clause.)
Literally, this sentence ends up as, "The probe carries Sojourner, which one
names the robot traveler."
> DoqyuQ muD yav je poj qoq, 'ej tugh tera' lI'choH.>
The object of {lI'} is the thing which is being transmitted, like {De'}
"information." You need {'ej tugh tera'Daq lI'choH}.
> I meant: (double translation from original spanish)
>
> "In the Terran system, Terrans have just landed a space probe on planet
> Mars! The probe is called Mars Pathfinder, y has a little rover called
> Sojourner. It's analizing the planet's soil and atmosphere, and it will
> soon start transmitting data to Earth."
>
> original spanish:
>
> "En el sistema solar terrano, los terranos acaban de aterrizar un sonda
> espacial en el planeta Marte! La sonda se llama Mars Pathfinder, y tiene un
> peque�o robot llamado Sojourner. Est� analizando la atm�sfera y el suelo
> marciano, y pronto va a empezar a transmitir datos a la tierra."
>
> As you can see, I wrote this some days ago. I have some doubts on my
> translation, specially on my last sentence, I got very confused in the
> object part. And, I tried to go further, but I hit a wall with the word
> "image". Who do you say that?
We don't know yet. Okrand's next book will have some information on the
creative arts, and will probably have a word for "painting." This will be the
closest we've ever gotten.
--
SuStel -- qoH vuvbe' SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97520.9