tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 30 12:42:06 1997

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Re: KLBC: Phrases



ghItlh Steven Boozer:
>>>>>
'Iwvan wrote:
:David Trimboli wrote:
:> January 28, 1997 5:48 AM EST, jatlh Perry J. Brulotte:
:> > [If war is costly and war is hell then hell must be costly.]
:>  :> waghchugh noH 'ej ghe'or 'oHchugh noH'e', vaj waghnIS ghe''or.
:
:_tKD_ 4.2.2 implies that the Type 2 verbal suffixes indicate deontic
:modality (the need for, or desirability of, an event); here the _must_
:performs an alethic function (`it follows that hell is costly' rather
:than `hell needs to be costly').  Unless there is precedent for such
:use of {-nIS}, I suggest using {-law'} or nothing at all.

[Qu'vatlh! jabbI'IDwIj wa'DIch narghlaw'ta'.  Let's try it again!]

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make. Here are all
the attestation of -nIS I could find in canon. Is there a "precedent for such
use of {-nIS}"?
<<<<<<

The difference is in whether "must" refers 
  (a) to a REQUIREMENT/ DUTY/ OBLIGATION, as in 

	1. He must clean up his room before going to the qep'a'.
or

  (b) to an INFERRED, BUT NOT OBSERVED, FACT, as in

	2. He must be arriving at the meeting about now.

All the canonical uses of <-nIS> that you cited are of type (a). Go through
them and see.

English often uses the same word, "must", in both senses, but this does
not make them interchangeable. Try substituting "need(s) to":

	3. He needs to clean up his room before going to the qep'a'. (Fine)

	4. He needs to be arriving at the meeting about now. (Huh?)

Sentence 4 might mean that "he" has some obligation that he can't fulfill
unless he's arriving at the meeting about now: e.g., he's supposed to be
on a panel that starts in ten minutes. But it can't mean the same thing as
the obvious reading of sentence (2), which is roughly

	2a. I guess he's arriving at the meeting about now; all the
evidence available to me suggests it, but I have no direct proof.

or, more briefly,

	2b. I infer that he's arriving at the meeting about now.

2a and 2b clearly fit into the realm of <-law'>: "seemingly, apparently...
any uncertainty on the speaker's part... even.... 'I think' or 'I suspect'."
Thus, we can translate them (and so also 2 itself) as

	2K. DaH qepDaq pawlaw'.

(ignoring the unKlingon approximation of "*about* now"). But 1 and 3,
which are synonymous, both refer to obligation and have the same
translation, which uses <-nIS> (TKD: "need"):

	1K/3K. qep'a'Daq ghoSpa' pa'lIj ghIHbe'nISmoH.

Someone might argue about <-nISmoH>, but the point is that <-nIS> is
appropriate here and <-law'> is not: there is no uncertainty whatsoever.

In the original sentence, "hell must be costly" has nothing to do what hell
NEEDS  to be like or IS UNDER AN OBLIGATION to be like. "Must" here
shows that you're making a logical INFERENCE. You haven't priced hell
out, but put these two facts together ("war is hell" and "war is costly")
and the conclusion follows. Never mind that the logic is full of holes; the
form of expression is that of an inference.) Inference, guesswork,
supposition: these are the domain of <-law'>, and the proper translation
is

	... vaj waghlaw' ghe''or.

     marqem, tlhIngan veQbeq la'Hom -- Heghbej ghIHmoHwI'pu'! 
Subcmdr. Markemm, Klingon Sanitation Corps -- Death to Litterbugs!
**              Mark A. Mandel : [email protected]             **
    Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200 
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
          Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/




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