tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jan 26 18:05:33 1997
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Re: Klingon Honor
Continuing from my last post. What I want to know is simply this: what is
the difference between the nouns {batlh} and {quv}?
My first impression was that {batlh} refers to honor in the abstract -- the
entire set of behaviors the society as a whole agrees are honorable. {quv}
refers to someone's personal honor -- your reputation in the eyes of other
people and maybe yourself. It is {quv} that Klingons are obsessed by: your
{quv} can be besmirched, your {quv} must be rigorously defended (often in a
duel), your {quv} can be stripped from you by Discommendation, you either
have {quv} or you don't (Worf tells Quark, "You have no honor!" in this
week's "Looking for par'Mach..."). {pop} is simply an honor received - a
reward, medal, promotion, induction into the Order of the Bat'leth, etc. --
for meritorious service. (This one is the easiest to understand.)
However, on reviewing the canon, it seems that Okrand sometimes uses
{batlh} and {quv} interchangeably. Certainly to do something
"(dis)honorably" you use {batlh} as an adverbial, {batlh(Ha')}. Since he
took the trouble of coming up with two separate words, just how does he
distinguish between them?
Or have I just confused myself again?
On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, I wrote:
|:We do have a definition. TKD page 183, {pop} "reward," and TKW page 47: "The
|:Klingon word 'pop' ('reward') could refer to compensation or a prize of some
|:sort, but it also means 'honor' in the sense of recognition for a particular
|:achievement or set of achievements."
|:
|:SuStel
|
|Since Klingons are obsessed by honor, perhaps its time again to discuss the
|various words for it we have available. First, to get the ball rolling and
|the creative/critical juices flowing, let's look at the considerable canon
|available for batlh and quv, "honor" (including the related concepts of
|batlhHa', ghob, pop, tIgh and vuv):
|
|batlh honor (n.):
|yIntaHvIS qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' batlh 'etlhvam chenmoHlu'pu'
| this sword of honor descends from the time of Kahless the Unforgettable. S8
|batlh potlh law' yIn potlh puS
| Honor is more important than life. TKW
|batlh qelDI' tlhIngan, lumbe'
| A Klingon does not postpone a matter of honor. TKW
|
|batlh honored, with honor, honorably (adv.):
|batlh Daqawlu'taH
| You will be remembered with honor. TKD
|batlh bIHeghbe'
| You will die without honor. TKD
|batlh Daqawlu'taH
| You will be remembered with honor. ST3
|batlh maHegh
| [We die honorably.] CK (untranslated opening dialogue)
|batlh qaghojmoHpu'
| It has been an honor to instruct you. CK
|batlh malja' DaHuq
| You transact business honorably. PK
|Hoch DaSopbe'chugh batlh bIHeghbe'
| Eat everything or you will die without honor. PK
|batlh qaghojmoH
| It has been an honor to instruct you. PK
|tlhIngan Dujmey law'qu' SommeyDaq batlh cha'lu'
| [It] has been emblazoned upon the hulls of countless Klingon starships. SP1
|pIj maSuvpu' batlh maSuvpu' 'ej maQapbejta'
| In our many battles, we have fought with honor and achieved VICTORY!
| (Hallmark)
|batlh bIHeghjaj.
| May you die well. TKW
|batlh ghob yIpab.
| Adhere to virtue honorably. TKW
|batlh Heghlu'chugh noDnISbe' vay' TKW
| An honorable death requires no vengeance. TKW
|
|batlhHa' dishonorably (adv.) [IMO (HolQeD 4.4)]:
|batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu'
| One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. TKW
|Qu' buSHa'chugh SuvwI', batlhHa' vangchugh, qoj matlhHa'chugh, pagh ghaH
| SuvwI''e'
| If a warrior ignores duty, acts dishonorably, or is disloyal, he is
| nothing. TKW
|
|ghob ethics, virtue (n.):
|qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu'
| devotion and loyalty to family is one of the most important Klingon
| virtues. S13
|tlhIngan ghobmey paq
| Klingon Book of Virtues [i.e. original title of TKW acc. to LC's MARC-CIP].
|pop 'oH ghob'e'
| Virtue is the reward. TKW
|ghob tIvnISbe'lu'
| One need not enjoy virtue. TKW
|batlh ghob yIpab
| Adhere to virtue honorably. TKW
|
|pop a reward, compensation, a prize of some sort (n.):
|pop 'oH ghob'e'
| Virtue is the reward. TKW
|
|quv be honored, high, supreme [TKD Add.] (vb.):
|naDev juHlIjDaq cha'logh jISopneSchugh vaj jIquv
| It would be an honor to eat twice here at your house, your Honor. PK
|bItuHlaHbe'chugh bIquvlaHbe'
| If you cannot be shamed, you cannot be honored. TKW
|noH ghoblu'DI' yay quv law' Hoch quv puS
| In war there is nothing more honorable than victory. TKW
|
|quv honor (n.):
|quvwIj DatIchpu', tera'ngan
| [You have insulted my honor, Terran.] PK
|batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu'
| One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. TKW
|tlhIngan quv DatIchDI' Seng yIghuH
| When you insult a Klingon's honor, prepare for trouble. TKW
|quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh
| A Klingon who kills without showing his face has no honor. TKW
|'ang'eghQo' quv Hutlhbogh jagh neH ghobtaHvIS ghaH
| Only an enemy without honor refuses to show himself in battle. TKW
|quv bey'
| Honor Display KCD
|
|quvHa'ghach dishonor (n.):
|quvHa'moH dishonor (vb.):
|qaStaHvIS wej puq poHmey vav puqloDpu' puqloDpu'chaj je quvHa'moH vav
| quvHa'ghach
| The dishonor of the father dishonors his sons and their sons for three
| generations. TKW
|
|quvmoH to honor (vb.):
|qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'. ghoHtaH je. tIv'eghtaH
|je. vaj SuquvmoH.
| MSN Expert Forum BBS (MO to SuStel)
|
|quvqa'meH vIttlhegh secrecy proverb (n.)
| ("a proverb [for the purpose of] being honored again") IMO in HolQeD
|
|tIgh custom, honor (n.):
|tlhIngan tIgh
| "The Klingon Way" (title) TKW
|"You outsiders see only our fierceness, our love of battle. You do not see
|the tIgh, the honor, that shapes our every act." [Gowron in ST:Klingon
|novelization]
|
|vuv to respect (vb.):
|qoH vuvbe' SuS
| The wind does not respect a fool. TKW
-- Voragh