tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 07 10:49:26 1997
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Re: loDvam ghaH 'Iv'e' ?
The whole issue of how to say, "Who is this man?" is a little
muddy. Okrand has given us some word order in examples which
surprised us, particularly with, I'm pretty sure, examples of
both {SoH 'Iv} and {'Iv SoH}.
The original explanation of {'Iv} was that it was supposed to
go wherever the noun it represented went in a statement
answering the question. So, since I say, "He is a man" as
{loD ghaH}, it is a short progression:
He is a man = loD ghaH.
The warrior is a man = loD ghaH SuvwI''e'.
He is this man = loDvam ghaH.
The warrior is this man = loDvam ghaH SuvwI''e'.
Who is this man = loDvam ghaH 'Iv'e'?
The advice you were given about "as for" applied to whatever
has the {-'e'} on it is basically wrong, but for an
understandable reason. The suffix {-'e'} can apply the "as for"
meaning to it when used in general, but in this instance the
{-'e'} exists in order to satisfy an arbitrary grammatical
rule. The subject of a sentence using a pronoun as the verb "to
be" always uses {-'e'}. The "as for" focus or emphasis that is
normally the function of {-'e'} simply does not apply in this
setting.
All it means is that there is an object, then a prounoun, then
a subject with {-'e'} applied to it. For the most part, the
verb "to be" allows you to swap subject and object if they are
the same entity, so I can also see as valid: {'Iv ghaH
loDvam'e'?}
I think that anyone who demands that one of these is correct
and the other is wrong may be claiming more authority on the
topic than Okrand has given us material to defend. He has been
somewhat inconsistent in this particular area and I just let it
slide one way or the other. I understand it when it is said
either way and I will say it one way or the other depending on
whim with very little concern over whether I am "right" or
"wrong" because I know that everyone ELSE will understand what
I'm saying and Okrand has given me no reason to expect either
of these to be wrong.
charghwI'
According to [email protected]:
>
> ghItlh peHruS:
>
> > << loDvam ghaH 'Iv'e' >>
> >
> > I really don't like the above sentence. It translates as: Referring to
> > whom, he is this man. Try << 'Iv ghaH loDvam'e'>> instead. It translates
> > as: Referring to this man, who is he?
> >
> > peHruS
>
> It was me who wrote that.
>
> I am (still) a beginner of tlhIngan Hol, and I was trying to say:
> "Who is this man?"
>
> {loDvam} - this man
> {ghaH} - he
> {'Iv} - who
> {-'e'} - topic (actually, I don't remember, why I put that one)
>
> If I want to say the sentence "Who is that man?"? in Klingon, what do I say?
> tlhIngan HolvaD mu'tlhegh <Who is that man?> vIjatlh vIneHchugh, nuq vIjatlh?
>
> ______________
> muHwI'
> Stardate 97591.5
>
>
>