tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 24 07:42:42 1996
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Re: What prefix to use for "I--us" etc.?
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: What prefix to use for "I--us" etc.?
- Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:42:25 -0400 ()
- Priority: NORMAL
charghwI'vo': I can't stand by and watch bad advice.
On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:47:00 -0700 Eskil Heyn Olsen
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Dr. Maciej St. Zieba wrote:
>
> Since this wasn't sent to KLBC, I'll dare answering you.
>
> > It is interesting however how to express such situations, as e.g.
> > I shall kill us (all).
> > Which prefix(es) to use?
You'd recast the sentence. Admit it. This is damned awkward even in
English. Nobody is going to listen to this and not ask you for
clarification.
The truth is, if you look at it closer, you'll see the flaw. If "I" am
the subject, "us" can't be the object, since you are implying that the
subject and object have the same person, but differing number, so it is
reflexive (because the subject and object are the same person/people, but
then it is NOT reflexive because they are not of the same number.
Who are you talking to, anyway? Yourself or the people you are calling
"us"? If you are talking to "us", then "us" becomes "you". "I am ready to
kill you (pl) and myself." This is easier to translate.
tugh SaHoH 'ej jIHoH'egh.
Actually, I'd prefer: {tugh SaHoH 'ej jIHegh.}
> TKD p33 "For such meanings, suffixes (section 4.2.1) and/or pronouns
> (section 5.1) must be used."
Great. But he doesn't tell you which prefix to use while you are using
such a pronoun and what you've chosen looks quite wrong to me. I find
this particular citation completely useless, since he does not show us
how to implement it.
> So I would render "I shall kill us", using {rupbej} for showing that the
> speaker is prepared to exterminate:
I don't think {rupbej} is a good translation for "shall". It may be a
more truthful statement, since one is not truely prescient, but it merely
means that I am definitely prepared. I may be definitely prepared for
winning the lottery. That doesn't mean it is going to happen.
> {maH jIHoHrupbej} or {maH HoHrupbej jIH}
I definitely don't like the first suggestion, and I don't like the second
one very much. Mostly, I see this as a fruitless exercise in how to say
something badly in TWO languages.
> I can't find any guidelines for the prefix {jI-} in the first sentence
bImobbe'.
> Qapla'
>
> DaH rIn jabbI'ID
pItlh.
> +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
> | Eskil Heyn Olsen |This signature (send money) contains no (send money) |
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charghwI'