tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jan 03 09:26:04 1996
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Re: newbie comments
>From the keyboard of [email protected]
> "[email protected]"vo':
> >I've learned that one, so I never try to translate anything. ;-)
>
> I'm disappointed. You must realize that the path of least resistence is only
> taken by the rejmorghpu' of the world.
Yes, I do. Apparently my ;-) was not interpreted as the somewhat humorous,
somewhat ironic comment it was meant to be. Sorry.
> As far as I'm concerned, translation is
> really a spectacularly effective learning tool for langs, mainly for this
> reason: Original writing can be made as simple as you want, and if you go on
> writing simply stuff, your skill sits idly by; translation forces you to
> attempt to express things that you may otherwise have qualms about, and
> that's where you really get good at *recasting*.
Agreed. Attempting to say/write things is a good way to learn. Although,
I feel that just thinking something up in English and then trying to
figure out how to say it in tlhIngan Hol is the same process. Much of
the time, it involves recasting just like you described above. Of course,
if you can eventually get to the point where you just _think_ in
tlhIngan Hol then you are _much_ better off. Unfortunately, there are
probably only a few people besides Qanqor who can do that. :-)
> With one big concession:
> Translation should follow repetitive drilling and fortification of knowledge
> of grammar and vocab. It is not a beginner's friend.
Quite true. I've been reading this list for 2.5 years, and, due to not
having much free time, I haven't really _studied_ tlhIngan Hol in that time.
Although, I have learned quite a bit just from reading the list. I guess
immersion works, even when it's only partial immersion. Even when I
depend on a translation program to do some of the hard work for me.
Due to my lack of serious study, I tend to have some serious difficulties
with creating/translating something in/into tlhIngan Hol. But, I do
find that when I try, I learn something new every time. Unfortunately,
I also have to look up 80% of the words I want to use, which tends to
make it quite difficult. Which means, obviously that I have to spend
more time studying, but I don't have more time, so I just try to muddle
through, but that doesn't work so good, ad infinitum, ad naseum. :-(
I guess it's time to enroll in the Postal Course.
Having the time to just learn a bunch of words and learn the grammar is
something that is definitely required before you can really do translations.
Otherwise you end up with things like:
nI'It 'e' taHqeq tIchaw'Qo'
for:
Don't let the b*st*rds get you down!
> But what is disturbing is when someone introduces
> himself saying, "I bought TKD two days ago, and have started translating
> Beowulf; here's the first couple lines>> GVHetio jnEqwc Jpo jndEcB SgfIJUgjOJ
> DwCGHi kogcG JHTgHW GH IKgFV..." That's the wrong way.
Oh. That is just hopeless. Even I am not dense enough to try that.
(Although my "taHqeq" line above indicates that perhaps I am that dense. :-)
BTW, I bought my first TKD quite a bit more than two days ago. :-)
If you don't start simple you are never going to get anywhere.
> A better way is this. "Hi, I bought TKD two days ago and have attempted a few
> simple sentences. How about this: nagh legh Qa'. qettaH SajwIj. SajwIj
> tlha'taH Qa'vetlh. tInqu' Qa'vetlh..." We are all much more receptive to
> this.
Definitely. "targh yIqet. yIqet." (I hope that means what I think it means.)
Still learning, just not fast enough, :-)
qu'
--
. Joe Steger ([email protected]) .
. Work V: 303-863-8088 Work F: 303-863-1218 Home V: 303-232-9241 .
. "I see nothing! I hear nothing! I know nothing!" -- Hans Schultz .
. "Opinions expressed must be mine. Nobody else wants them." .