tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 27 14:38:14 1996

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Re: KLBC: naDev jIH tu'lu'

ghItlh wovwI' (Robyn Stewart):
>DaH jISo'Ha'rup.

bI'ang'eghmo' qaHoy'.  A minor point of vocabulary: we know that {So'}
means "hide something else" -- {So'wI'} is a cloaking device -- so you
probably should use the verb suffix {-'egh} and say {jISo'Ha''eghrup}.
Or you might choose the verb {'ang} "reveal" instead of {So'Ha'}, which
could mean "mis-hide", as in hide something badly.

>qaSvIStaH tera' DIS wa'SanID Hutvatlh chorghmaH chorgh TKD vIje'.

reH <-taH> tlha' <-vIS>, vaj <qaStaHvIS> DaghItlhnIS.
mu'ghom ngo' Daje'ta' qar'a'?  machlaw' 'ej SuD.
tera' DIS wa'SanID Hutvatlh HutmaH cha' chen 'et chIS ghajbogh paq chu''e'.

{-taH} is a type 7 suffix, and always comes before {-vIS}, a type 9 suffix.
The two together act almost like a single suffix {-taHvIS}.  The only other
suffix that can come between them is the type 8 {-neS}.

Did you get the "old" edition of TKD, with the blue cover?  The new edition
was published in 1992.  It's physically larger, and has a few pages of extra
vocabulary and a couple of additional grammatical rules.

>'oH vIlaDchu'.  muSey'moHtaH 'oH.

ghaytan rap ghot law' ghu'.
That's probably the way a lot of people got started.

>tlhIngan Hol lujatlh ghotpu' 'e' vInejtaH.
>Hol qab lujatlh ghotpu' 'e' vItu'pu'.

chaq Paramount-vaD vum ghotpu'vetlh. :-)
A grammatical point: when using a sentence as object, the second verb
never gets a type 7 (aspect) suffix such as {-taH} or {-pu'}.

>tlhIngan Hol luyajbe'law' chaH.  vItunglu'.  mu'ghom vIroQ.

qoHmeymo' bIjeghnISbe'bej.

>I'd heard of the KLI, but thought it was a joke.  When I received
>birthday greetings from the KLI, I replied briefly in rusty Klingon,
>but a very busy Dr. Schoen answered back in English without
>addressing my question.  My fears about the KLI were confirmed:
>clearly no one, not even the director, spoke the language.  However,
>I wrote back to Dr. Schoen, and he encouraged me. I renewed my
>efforts to learn Klingon.  And here I am.

bISaHmo' Dub ghu'maj.  We benefit from your presence.

>*Robyn* 'oH pongwIj'e'.  <shining bright with fame> 'oS
><Robyn> 'e' muja' paq vIghajbogh.  *wovwI'* tupong 'e' vItul.
>tugh lut vIghItlhbogh SalI'.

Because English is my first language, :-), I understand this perfectly.
However, there are a couple of things I feel I need to point out here.
Klingon doesn't have indirect quotes; it only has direct ones.  You've
tried to say "a book...tells me that 'Robyn' means..." but that's not a
valid construction.  You need to quote the book directly instead, to say
"a book...reports '"Robyn" means...'".  {'e'} is not used with verbs of
saying (see TKD 6.2.5).  You've also used verb prefixes that don't match
the actual object of the verb: {'e' muja'}, {lut SalI'}, etc.  I can't
complain much about {wovwI' tupong}, since we don't know the right way
to use {pong} (unique among Klingon verbs, it seems to need two objects).
There is canon to support using the verb prefix to indicate the "indirect
object" in some cases, as in {...ghIchlIj qanob}, but I'd suggest staying
away from this "shorthand" construction unless you really know what you
are doing.

>I have two specific questions for the pabpo':

I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer these, but I'll let you know.

>1. In Hamlet [lut 'ay' wa', lut 'ay'Hom wa', nav vagh--why no
>line numbers?] appears the line <vIHbe' je ghew.>  What does "je"
>mean in this context?  I expected <vIHbe' neH ghew>.

It means "also, too" (see TKD section 5.3).  Literally, this means
"a bug also doesn't move."  It's a little elliptical, but then so is
"not a mouse stirring."

>2. How do I pronounce doubled stop consonants in Klingon?  When I say
><juppu'> do I spit twice, spit once with added force, or pronounce as
>if it were spelled <*jupu'>?  And worse, how do I tackle the double
>glottal stop?  There are minimal pairs: <Duy'a'> ambassador and
><Duy''a'> major defect. I have been "bouncing" on the vowel sound,
>echoing it after each stop, so that <ro''e'> sounds like
><*ro'o'e'> to distinguish it from <ro'e'>.

That's about how I do it too, though the extra noise between the paired
stops is more like an unvoiced schwa than an echo of the previous vowel.
If I'm not being extremely emphatic in pronunciation, I merely wind up
with a slightly longer stop than a single one.  Instead of {*jupu'} and
a quick *pop* between the vowels, I get a distinct close of the first
vowel, a short quiet period, and a distinct open of the second vowel.
{jabbI'ID} is the most common example I run into; I find that if I try
to pronounce it quickly, I almost get a {m} sound between the {b}s.

Oh, and the subject line has a small problem too.  {tu'lu'} has *almost*
become a fossilized construction, but it still needs to have the right
verb prefix.  If you want "me" to be the object, you have to put {vI-}
on {tu'lu'}.  (Remember, {-lu'} changes the way the prefix points.)

-- ghunchu'wI'               batlh Suvchugh vaj batlh SovchoH vaj

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