tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 26 11:27:48 1995
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Re: Re[4]: }}} Victory Song / battle cry
- From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Re[4]: }}} Victory Song / battle cry
- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:27:48 -0400
>From: [email protected]
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 16:58:35 EST
>Let me clarify something here.
>"taS boSop 'ej SuHegh" really is not a pun. It is not a play on words. It is a
>variation of an American saying. I have seen: "Eat S___ and Die", "Eat Hot Lead
>& Die", etc. So the item varies. I just put in an item relevent to the
>subject. This also could be used for a Super Soaker battle. But in the case of
>paintball, when you are hit with the colored liquid you are "dead". In common
>vernacular "eating it" is synomonous with "biting the big one", both refering to
>"dying".
Indeed. And I was too dumb to catch the reference to "paint" in the slogan
as being connecting with the fact that this was a slogan for a PAINTball
team.
Nonetheless, it's still pretty confusing, since "taS" is really not very
understandable as "paint". It could be just about any liquid, and many
"solutions" are quite edible. However, you're right that the context of a
paintball team can help this, but I still find it confusing.
As to "eating" and "dying" being connected, that is indeed common
slang... in English. I doubt very much that it is in any way global, which
would make the concept not come across. Note that the slogan you have
written is in Klingon and not in English.
>I meant this to be something short and sweet. That when asked what it means,
>the implication would be understood by the opposition.
OK. It works all right when explained, but of course a good translation is
supposed to be self-explanatory and not rely on other knowledge. Then
again, you *know* that your audience *does* have this other knowledge
(they're all English-speakers), and you *know* they'll only be getting the
translation in a form that makes the connection to the English expression
clear (they'll be asking you (or rather, the members of the paintball
team), not checking up some abstract database of Klingon words and
assembling a sentence like "You consume liquids and expire"). So under
those circumstances you can figure the meaning will get across. I don't
see how that should preclude me from saying that I don't think the meaning
will get across in general, or voicing my opinion that general solutions
are "better" than fixes that only work in specific cases, which is what I
did.
>When someone asks for suggestions, I believe this to be a brainstorming session.
> Which is were all ideas are tabled without shooting each individual one down.
>Once many ideas are out there, they are then debated upon about their individual
>merits. Debate is incouraged. Destroying ideas is not.
"Once many ideas are out there," you say. Excellent! So the idea was put
out there for a translation, and I put out my opinions/ideas on its
quality. If the only "ideas" that are allowed "out there" are ones that
say "Yes! Your idea is magnificent!" no matter what was said, then what
sort of debate can be had? Debate is a discussion of the merits of various
notions, you say. Well, I was discussing the merits of that particular
phrase, pointing out in particular that certain merits are lacking. I
don't think I was "destroying" any ideas (how could I? Ideas are very
hardy things); I was simply putting other ideas on the table to discuss.
And I might add, I was doing so because I was *ASKED* to. When someone
puts an idea out on the list, that's asking for opinions. For ideas from
other people. Should I get your approval for all my ideas and opinions in
the future? Now who's destroying ideas?
~mark