tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jul 04 23:19:49 1994
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Poem: The Victory of the Hunter
>From: [email protected]
>Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 11:35:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Okay, having had the subject of poetry (rhyming and un-) going through my
>brain, it's small surprise that one came up and seized me and demanded to
>be written (tlhIngan poetry is SO aggressive that way...).
Glad to see you're back in the writing!
>This poem is meant to be a historical battle poem, about a ship named the
>Hunter (not a person who is a hunter, so don't get confused). Although it
>actually does almost rhyme in some places, (yes, I know... get over it.)
>most of the meter actually comes from the rhythm of the words. Tense is
>impliedly in the past, a poetic liberty which you can love or hate, I use
>it.
It's more than poetic liberty, it's the way to do things. Klingon doesn't
have tense. Klingon doesn't have tense. Klingon doesn't have tense (what
I tell you three times is true). Klingon has aspect, which is something
else entirely.
>Oh yeah, there are one or two other small licenses:
>aliens is pluralized with -mey, to be insulting to their intelligence,
>and to give the idea of there being a LOT of them as in a big ship.
Well, "-mey" plurals don't insult intelligence, nor even imply necessarily
a lot. It just means they're scattered about.
>I know jegh is a verb, and to be totally correct I would have to add
>-ghach, but it didn't fit, and I figured it wasn't fatal.
I'll let you off, since it's a poem. Maybe.
>lam really means dirt. But it's close enough to mud for me.
Me too. Unless it's vitally important that you're talking about wet dirt
as opposed to dry dirt, what's the diff?
>DrujIv
>==========
>yay wamwI' (The Victory of the Hunter)
>HurghghachDaQ logh,
Dru, are we going to have to do this again? Remember, "-Daq" is the
locative suffix. "DaQ" is a noun meaning "ponytail". I won't mention that
again, but remember it each time you see "DaQ".
>yuQmeyDaQ lam,
Um, you have your possessive constructs backwards. In Klingon, the
possessor comes *first*. So "In the darkness of space" is "In space's
darkness", and thus "logh HughghachDaq" (or possibly "logh HurghDaq"--not
making a noun out of "Hurgh" (that's pickle, anyway), but making it "In
dark space).
>Duj HemmoH wo'
This is "The empire makes a ship proud", which is a fine line... except the
English side says "The empire makes a ship proud." *word-order sign*.
Object first. "wo' HemmoH Duj", to say what the English has.
>"Ha'!" jatlhpu' HoD'a'.
I thought you said you were implying the tense, not stating it. This line
would mean "The captain had said, "Ha'"" (i.e. before the time we're
talking about). Which may not be bad.
>reH yay wamwI' yIqawnISneStaH.
"You, your honor, *must continue to remember victory's hunter". A
meaningful line (but see below), but it doesn't parallel your English. You
say "You must always remember the name of the Hunter with honor". Would
that not be "reH wamwI' quv pong DaqawnIStaHneS" or "reH batlh wamwI' pong
DaqawnIStaHneS"? (depending on whether you meant "remember (the name of the
hunter with honor [i.e. the honored hunter])" or "remember with honor the
name of the hunter").
Your suffixes are out of order; "-neS" should come after "-taH". Also, I
thihnk that both "-nIS" and the "yI-" prefix are redundant. It sounds
alsmost like "make yourself need to to remember", but that's probably
confusion in my head from Lojban (where you can say such things simply).
Either I'm commanding you, or you need to do it. Doing both seems like I'm
commanding you to need to do it. Pick one or the other.
>nIteb ngIv wamwI',
>nom lengvIs wamwI',
"-vIS" always sets off warning bells. You should never see "-vIS" without
"-taH". Me, I think of the "while" prefix as "-taHvIS", never "-vIS" (It's
rare enough that I see "-neS" that I need to worry about "-taHneSvIS", and
in fact the fact that I know that's the exception helps me remember the
suffix-classes of those suffixes.) Do you need the "-taHvIS" at all?
It's not in your English version, and I'm not sure it adds anything.
>pay' HIvta' novmey.
>"baH!" dachpu' HoD'a'.
You mean "jach", right? The aspect isn't working for me again, also.
>reH yay wamwI' yIqawnISneStaH.
>ghorlaw'ta' chachaj,
>QapQo' yoDmeychaj,
>jegh lupoQ novmey.
>"Qo'!" jangpu' HoD'a'.
"ghorta'law'"; "law'" is type 6 and "ta'" is type 7. Interesting use of
"-Qo'" on the shields refusing to work; nice in the poetry. The "Qo'!"
answer by the captain is, of course, more than clever, it's the right
thing. If you're worried about the noun jegh, maybe try "yIjegh lura'
novmey" (the aliens commanded him, "Surrender!").
>reH yay wamwI' yIqawnISneStaH.
>neH QaplaH jonta',
"neH" goes after the verb or noun. "QaplaH jonta' neH"; only the engines
could function.
>chIch Duvta' HoD'a',
>Dujmey pawchuqta'.
"collide" is "paw'", not "paw". The meanings are close, tho. Your
word-order is off again, though. Subject after the verb.
>Dujmey Qaw'chuqta'.
Ditto here.
>"yay," Haghpu' HoD'a'.
>reH yay wamwI' yIqawnISneStaH.
>HurghghachDaQ logh,
>yuQmeyDaQ lam,
See above.
>noybej pong wamwI'.
"wamwI' pong". Possessor comes first.
>"maj," jatlhpu voDleH,
OK, so you missed a '. Big deal.
>"reH yay wamwI' yIqawnISneStaH."
>Boy, that just loses SHITLOADS in the translation....
Sure does.
Well, hell, Dru, you still can belt out stuff that leaves a lot of other
stuff in the dust when it comes to actual poetry! The grammar can use some
help, but you knew that.
~mark