tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 28 06:02:47 2012
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nu'uchtaH San ghop
Qov:
> The English *says* he's praying, and the "for show" is your interpretation, so I think you'd be fine with the Klingon saying he was honouring ... whatever a contemporary shrine would be dedicated to, or even San quvmoH.
I think <San quvmoH> would work. I was trying to avoid explicitly
specifying a target for his prayers since that's unspecified in the
original, but I suppose <San> is implied.
De'vID:
>>>> <San ghop choHlaH pagh.>
>>>> Also {choH} might not work for {ghop} here... maybe {SIgh}?
Qov:
>>> I liked choH. Or maybe choHmoH. SIgh is too weak.
De'vID:
>> I'm reminded of KGT p.106-7 where it implies that {ghop choH} would be
>> taken literally, i.e., Fate (a personified goddess) has had her hand
>> (a literal body part) altered in some way,
Qov:
> But that's the metaphor: that her hand that holds someone back or propels
> them forward has been made to change its action. Or do you think the hand of
> fate acts another way?
Here's the paragraph from KGT p.106:
<By the same token, literally translating a sentence such as "The
restaurant changed hands" into Klingon, presumably as {ghopDu' choHpu'
Qe'} ("The restaurant has altered hands") or perhaps {ghopDu' tampu'
Qe'} ("The restaurant has exchanged hands"; {ghopDu'}, "hands";
{choHpu'}, "has altered, has changed"; {Qe'}, "restaurant"; {tampu'},
"has exchanged"), does not tell the Klingon that the restaurant is now
under new ownership, which is what the Federation Standard phrase
really means. Assuming that a restaurant can do anything at all (which
it probably cannot -- only a being of some sort can do something), the
only meaning a Klingon would glean from these sentences is that the
restaurant acquired hands (meaning only body parts) that it previously
did not have. Even given Klingon cuisine, this would be highly
unusual. Idioms are very much language (and culture) specific.>
When I read back {San ghop choHlaH pagh}, given the above, I think
{San ghop choH} would mean that someone makes an alteration to the
hand of Fate, such as giving it a tattoo, or decorating it with a
bracelet, or something like that, not making it do something it
wouldn't have otherwise done. I agree though that {SIgh} is too weak.
Maybe: <jaS vang San ghop 'e' raDlaH pagh>? Or even: <San ghop raDlaH pagh>?
--
De'vID
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