tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 27 08:00:29 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nu'uchtaH San ghop

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

As usual I'm reading the Klingon straight through before looking at the English, and giving you what I think as I read it. I like it when people do that with mine. 

At 23:31 '?????' 4/26/2012, De'vID jonpIn wrote:

nIpongan SuvwI''a' tu'lu'.  ghaHvaD {Nobunaga} ponglu'.
A model example of how to translate "There once was a great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga." Breaking it into two sentences preserves the simplicity. 


jaghDaj mangghom wa'maH vatlhvI' tIn law' mangghomDaj tIn rap,


Daj. "His army was a tenth of the size of his enemy's."
Canon {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong} puts the percent before not after. Do we have other contradictory canon or did you feel the odd structure of a law'/puS wanted it afterwards? I think it should go first. Having it after made me think at first you were trying to do something weird with the verb, "ten percent as big." I was having some trouble parsing the sentence as I read it, so translated it into English. "His enemy's army's ten percent was the same size as his army?" I swear the very first thing I managed to get out of it was "his army was just as gay as his enemy's". 


 'ach jaghDaj
HIv 'e' wuq.  Qapbej 'e' Sovchu',
You mean {Qapbej} or {QaplaHbej}? The first sounds so strong it might be a premonition. 


'ach Qap 'e' luHon neghDaj.


Sa'vaD qay'law' ghu'vetlh.


che'ron jaHtaHvIS
lujaHtaHvIS? Or I suppose it's wa' mangghom, but you used lu in the next phrase. 


 chIrgh lujuSDI' mev {Nobunaga} 'ej neghDajvaD jatlh:
<lat vISuchpu'DI' DarSeq vIronmoH.  narghchugh nach, maQap; narghchugh
tlhuQ, maluj.  nu'uchtaH San ghop.>


maj.  Huvchu'.


chIrgh 'el {Nobunaga} 'ej tamtaHvIS mu'qaDmey bach.


Daj! qatlh?


  'elHa' 'ej DarSeq ronmoH.  nargh nach.  neghDaj pIlqu'moHlu'mo',
I would not have used {-lu'} here, because the agent of their inspiration was clearly either Nobunaga or the coin, both which would be third person singular. 


pe'vIl jaghchaj Qaw'chu'.

rInDI' may', {Nobunaga}vaD jatlh boQDaj: <San ghop choHlaH pagh.>

<quSDaq bIba',> jatlh {Nobunaga}.  DarSeq 'ang.  ngIq DopDaq nach tu'lu'.


vIloypu'!


A great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga decided to attack the enemy
although he had only one-tenth the number of men the opposition
commanded.
Ah, so you broke it into plenty of sentences. Keep that around ot show next time a beginner tries to translate a whole sentence of English as one sentence of Klingon. It's a very fine example of why not to. 


He knew that he would win, but his soldiers were in doubt.
Again, good repetition to get the "in doubt." It didn't read as redundant at all in Klingon. 


On the way he stopped at a Shinto shrine and told his men:
I found it a little interesting that you in narration used a different word for the lat/chIrgh than he did in dialogue. Was that intentional? I don't see the purpose.
"After I visit the shrine I will toss a coin. If heads comes, we will win; if 
tails, we will lose. Destiny holds us in her hand."

Nobunaga entered the shrine and offered a silent prayer.
I so didn't get this from your translation. Is it canon I'm missing? I understood that he was softly cursing, to insult or challenge fate. I know you don't want to go to {QunvaD qoy'} and I'm not sure whether the prayer in this case would be {no' quvmoH} or {Qun quvmoH}. If you know, that might be the closest. If you don't {lat quvmoHmeH tamtaHvIS jatlh} would seem to come a lot closer to "silent prayer" than curses. 


He came forth
and tossed a coin. Heads appeared. His soldiers were so eager to fight
that they won their battle easily.


I like the Klingon better than the English there.


"No one can change the hand of destiny," his attendant told him after
the battle.

"Indeed not," said Nobunaga, showing a coin which had been doubled,
with heads facing either way.
Very good choice not to try to translate the concept of "doubled". completely unnecessary to the story. Also, I think I want one of those coins. I like my realization that coins seem to have had one head and one not head since pretty much the invention of the coin. Want a really alien society? Have them not put heads on their metal tokens of exchange?
- Qov 

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