tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 27 14:06:19 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nu'uchtaH San ghop

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

At 12:32 '?????' 4/27/2012, you wrote:

Qov:
> Canon {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong} puts the percent before not after. Do we
> have other contradictory canon or did you feel the odd structure of a
> law'/puS wanted it afterwards?

pab vIlIj neH.


maj. maghoH vIneHbe'



Qov:
> I swear the very first thing I managed to get out of it was "his army was
> just as gay as his enemy's".

Err.... vIghel 'e' vISuD'a'?
porgh Seghchaj rap lungagh 'e' lumaS wa'maH vatlhvI' roghvaH net jatlh. vaj wa'maH vatlhvI' ghol mangghom rurchugh N. mangghom .... 



De'vID:
>> HIv 'e' wuq.  Qapbej 'e' Sovchu',

Qov:
> You mean {Qapbej} or {QaplaHbej}?  The first sounds so strong it might be a
> premonition.

The English says he knew he would win, not that he could win, so {Qapbej}.


SIbI'Ha' 'e' vIlaD.


De'vID:
>>  'elHa' 'ej DarSeq ronmoH.  nargh nach.  neghDaj pIlqu'moHlu'mo',

Qov:
> I would not have used {-lu'} here, because the agent of their inspiration
> was clearly either Nobunaga or the coin, both which would be third person
> singular.

It was one or the other, but left unspecified.
One or the other, left unspecified would be just as clear, but more simply done with {negh pIlqu'moHpu'mo'}. 


De'vID:
>> <quSDaq bIba',> jatlh {Nobunaga}.  DarSeq 'ang.  ngIq DopDaq nach tu'lu'.

Qov:
> vIloypu'!

:-)

De'vID:
>> A great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga decided to attack the enemy
>> although he had only one-tenth the number of men the opposition
>> commanded.

Qov:
> Ah, so you broke it into plenty of sentences. Keep that around ot show next
> time a beginner tries to translate a whole sentence of English as one
> sentence of Klingon. It's a very fine example of why not to.

Oh, yeah, no way I was going to do that paragraph as one sentence.


You'd be surprised what people will try.


De'vID:
>> On the way he stopped at a Shinto shrine and told his men:

Qov:
> I found it a little interesting that you in narration used a different word
> for the lat/chIrgh than he did in dialogue. Was that intentional? I don't
> see the purpose.

Yes, it was intentional.  I figured the {lat} is the thing inside a
{chIrgh}.  He was already at the {chIrgh}, so saying {chIrgh vISuch}
sounded a bit strange.  I mean, in English, when you're outside the
shrine (building), saying "I'm going inside to visit the shrine
(altar)" isn't that weird.  But for some reason, standing outside a
{chIrgh} then saying {chIrgh vISuch} sounded a bit off to me.


toH, I though the whole thing was the shrine. Thanks for explaning.


De'vID:
>> Nobunaga entered the shrine and offered a silent prayer.

Qov:
> I so didn't get this from your translation. Is it canon I'm missing?  I
> understood that he was softly cursing, to insult or challenge fate.

No, no canon.  I just didn't know what the Klingon understanding of
"silent prayer" might be.  We know Klingons meditate as well as pray,
but we don't have those words.  I figured someone with a better
knowledge of Klingon culture would correct me here.


nuvvetlh wIloS maH.


Qov:
> I know
> you don't want to go to {QunvaD qoy'} and I'm not sure whether the prayer in 
> this case would be {no' quvmoH} or {Qun quvmoH}. If you know, that might be
> the closest. If you don't {lat quvmoHmeH tamtaHvIS jatlh} would seem to come 
> a lot closer to "silent prayer" than curses.

Nobunaga is not petitioning a god(dess), or ancestors, or anything
personified when he offers his silent prayer.  It's more like a wish.
I don't think he's {quvmoH}ing anything, though I suppose that's
better than {qoy'} or {tlhob} or whatever.  (Actually, he's a bit of a
skeptic in the story, and is doing the prayer just for show anyway.)
If it's a silent prayer for show then what does he actually do? qaStaHvIS lup tor/joD/mInDu' SoQmoH/loS? The English *says* he's praying, and the "for show" is your interpretation, so I think you'd be fine with the Klingon saying he was honouring ... whatever a contemporary shrine would be dedicated to, or even San quvmoH. 


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