tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 27 12:32:12 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nu'uchtaH San ghop

De'vID jonpIn ([email protected])



Qov:
> Canon {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong} puts the percent before not after. Do we
> have other contradictory canon or did you feel the odd structure of a
> law'/puS wanted it afterwards?

pab vIlIj neH.

Qov:
> I swear the very first thing I managed to get out of it was "his army was
> just as gay as his enemy's".

Err.... vIghel 'e' vISuD'a'?

De'vID:
>> HIv 'e' wuq.  Qapbej 'e' Sovchu',

Qov:
> You mean {Qapbej} or {QaplaHbej}?  The first sounds so strong it might be a
> premonition.

The English says he knew he would win, not that he could win, so {Qapbej}.

Qov:
> lujaHtaHvIS?  Or I suppose it's wa' mangghom, but you used lu in the next
> phrase.

HIja', {lujaHtaHvIS} vIghItlhnIS.

De'vID:
>>  'elHa' 'ej DarSeq ronmoH.  nargh nach.  neghDaj pIlqu'moHlu'mo',

Qov:
> I would not have used {-lu'} here, because the agent of their inspiration
> was clearly either Nobunaga or the coin, both which would be third person
> singular.

It was one or the other, but left unspecified.

De'vID:
>> <quSDaq bIba',> jatlh {Nobunaga}.  DarSeq 'ang.  ngIq DopDaq nach tu'lu'.

Qov:
> vIloypu'!

:-)

De'vID:
>> A great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga decided to attack the enemy
>> although he had only one-tenth the number of men the opposition
>> commanded.

Qov:
> Ah, so you broke it into plenty of sentences. Keep that around ot show next
> time a beginner tries to translate a whole sentence of English as one
> sentence of Klingon. It's a very fine example of why not to.

Oh, yeah, no way I was going to do that paragraph as one sentence.

De'vID:
>> On the way he stopped at a Shinto shrine and told his men:

Qov:
> I found it a little interesting that you in narration used a different word
> for the lat/chIrgh than he did in dialogue. Was that intentional? I don't
> see the purpose.

Yes, it was intentional.  I figured the {lat} is the thing inside a
{chIrgh}.  He was already at the {chIrgh}, so saying {chIrgh vISuch}
sounded a bit strange.  I mean, in English, when you're outside the
shrine (building), saying "I'm going inside to visit the shrine
(altar)" isn't that weird.  But for some reason, standing outside a
{chIrgh} then saying {chIrgh vISuch} sounded a bit off to me.

De'vID:
>> Nobunaga entered the shrine and offered a silent prayer.

Qov:
> I so didn't get this from your translation. Is it canon I'm missing?  I
> understood that he was softly cursing, to insult or challenge fate.

No, no canon.  I just didn't know what the Klingon understanding of
"silent prayer" might be.  We know Klingons meditate as well as pray,
but we don't have those words.  I figured someone with a better
knowledge of Klingon culture would correct me here.

Qov:
> I know
> you don't want to go to {QunvaD qoy'} and I'm not sure whether the prayer in
> this case would be {no' quvmoH} or {Qun quvmoH}. If you know, that might be
> the closest. If you don't {lat quvmoHmeH tamtaHvIS jatlh} would seem to come
> a lot closer to "silent prayer" than curses.

Nobunaga is not petitioning a god(dess), or ancestors, or anything
personified when he offers his silent prayer.  It's more like a wish.
I don't think he's {quvmoH}ing anything, though I suppose that's
better than {qoy'} or {tlhob} or whatever.  (Actually, he's a bit of a
skeptic in the story, and is doing the prayer just for show anyway.)

-- 
De'vID

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