tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Apr 22 12:36:10 2008
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Re: cha' Hol ngeb mu'ghommey Daj vItu'pu'!
Voragh:
> >>> *{paqpo'} "librarian"?
SuStel:
> >> Ouch! No. Conceivably {paq pIn}, but more likely {paq vu'wI'}, or
> >> something along those lines.
Voragh:
> > I've seen *{paqpo'} used on this list off and on for years. I didn't coin
> > it; I found it in my notes when I searched "librarian".
ghunchu'wI':
>'oghta' 'Iv? lo'ta' 'Iv? DaHjaj QInlIj vIlaDpa', not vIleghpu' jIH.
jISovbe': "I found it in my notes". pItlh.
SuStel:
>Are you sure you haven't seen *{pabpo'} for "grammarian"? That was
>certainly a list invention. I don't remember ever seeing *{paqpo'} before.
I also assume *{pabpo'} was the model for *{paqpo'}, though whose I don't know.
Voragh:
> >>> *{paqtej} "bibliographer"?
> >>> *{paqSuy} "bookseller"?
SuStel:
> >> I see no basis on which you can turn these into compound nouns. {paq
> >> tej, paq Suy}. The first one is a little vague as well; "book scientist"
> >> might mean several things.
I see no basis on which we can't. The fact that we have no known examples
in the corpus of these two specific nouns appearing in compounds is not
evidence that they can't be so used.
Voragh:
> > Not to those of us in the book trade. A librarian is not the same
> thing as
> > a bibliographer, who does more than compile bibliographies or reading
> lists!
SuStel:
>I didn't say they were the same thing. I simply said that "book
>scientist" doesn't automatically say "bibliographer" to me. If you were
>to use it to describe a bibliographer, I'd understand you, but it'd be
>in a "We're speaking Klingon, and don't know a lot of specialized
>jargon" kind of way.
Voragh:
> > If a *{Holtej} is a someone who studies or practices the academic
> subject -
> > or "science" if you prefer to dress it up! - of {HolQeD} "linguistics",
> > then a *{paqtej} would be someone who studies or practices the subject
> > *{paqQeD} "bibliography" as taught in library schools the world
> > over. (Whether *{paqQeD} could stretch to mean the same thing as "library
> > science" (so-called) is another discussion.)
SuStel:
>If your basic premise were correct, I would accept *{paqQeD}
>unhesitatingly. We do have more evidence regarding {QeD} in compound
>nouns, so I'd have a lot less trouble accepting *{paqQeD} as a
>well-formed word, regardless of the validity of *{paqtej}.
Okrand writes WRT Klingon science:
Three groups of words in particular are, for the most part,
unrepresented: scientific terminology [...] Terms associated
with the various sciences are the subject of a special study,
and a report is currently being prepared. [TKD 9]
Until that report is ready, we can only look at the known examples {HolQeD}
"linguistics", {nughQeD} "sociology" and {HuchQeD} "economics" - though
Okrand hints that the latter is not exactly kosher:
There is no known non-slang counterpart, though {HuchQeD} (literally,
"money science") is often used for "economics". [KGT 148]
Whether that' because of doubts as to the scientific rigor of the field of
economics, or just the well-known Klingon distaste for anything having to
do with money (i.e. "filthy lucre") is unknown. (Remember Grilka's [and
Gowron's] shock and disgust at discovering her warrior neighbor actually
resorted to financial manipulation to try to seize control of her late
husband's lands and property in DS9 "House of Quark". IIRC the High
Council was not amused either.)
{porghQeD} however clearly tips the scales:
Maltz was familiar with the scientific study of bodily functions,
or {porghQeD}, but he didn't consider himself terribly well versed
in the field. [HQ 12.4:8]
So *{paqQeD} would be "the scientific study of books", i.e. the field of
bibliography. Now whether "scientific study" means the same thing as
"academic study" is another matter. <g>
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons