tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Nov 10 20:37:57 2006
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Re: transitivity
ja' Voragh:
>
> jIghung je
> I am also hungry. PK
>
> {je} applies to the verb: hungry in addition to thirsty
>
> jI'oj je
> I am also thirsty. PK
>
> {je} applies to the verb: thirsty in addition to hungry
If you're quoting the prisoner/guard joke, you are definitely mistaken.
Prisoner: "I am hungry." Guard: "I too am hungry."
{je} applies to the subject here. There is no room for doubt.
> notlh veS... 'a tugh manotlhchoH je maH.
> War is obsolete... as we are in danger of becoming. ST6
>
> {je} apparently applies to the verb, though it's not obvious from the
> English.
I believe you are again mistaken. The meaning of the Klingon is
clear: "...soon we too become obsolete."
> Note how moving {je} changes the meaning of the Klingon slightly:
>
> {manotlhchoH je maH} "we will become obsolete also" (in addition to
> being humiliated?)
I'm pretty sure this is yet another example of your misunderstanding
how {je} works when used following a verb. I read it as TKD explains
it: "We (along with another or others) also [will] become obsolete."
> {manotlhchoH maH je} "we also will become obsolete" (we in
> addition to someone else?)
Where did you find an example of this second phrasing? When used to
mean "also", {je} follows the verb. I can't think of anywhere we've
seen it following a single noun (or pronoun).
To apply the "in addition" idea to a verb, we must use the *verb*
conjunction {'ej}.
> So you see no difference between {jIghung je} "I'm also thirsty, I'm
> thirsty too" (which are ambiguous in English) and {jIghung
> jIH je} "I, too, am thirsty" other than the emphasized pronoun?
I see a real difference between them -- the first one has the meaning
you assign to the second, and the second one is not an attested
phrasing in Klingon.
-- ghunchu'wI'
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