tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 06 13:12:52 2006
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Re: Klingon WOTD: 'er'In (noun)
> > Additional Notes:
> > HolQeD 12:2, p. 6: "Maltz's Reward: Part I." There are two general words
> > used to refer to the end of an object that has discernible length (like a
> > stick or a piece of string): {megh'an} and {'er'In}. The words seem to be
> > used interchangeably when referring to only one end of the object, but once
> > either {megh'an} or {'er'In} has been used for one end, that is the only
> > word used for that end (within that sentence or conversation or bit of
> > discourse). The speaker or participants in a conversation do not go
> back and
> > forth between the two. Similarly, if one means either end of the stick
> and it
> > doesn't make any difference which end, the same rule applies: Either word
> > is fine, but, for that discourse, only the one is used.
> >
> > If a distinction is being made between the two ends, then both words are
> > used. It is not the case, however, that, even during the conversation,
> > {megh'an} is used for one specific end and {'er'In} for the
> other. They may
> > flip-flop, as long as the intent of the speaker is to keep the ends
> distinct.
qIno'rIq wrote:
>I have a question especially taking in concern the synonym (?) of
>{megh'an} and its alternating usage with {'er'In}, taking into account the
>possible distinction by using {-vam} and {-vetlh} on either of them.
>
>So, how about {'er'Invam} vs. {'er'Invetlh} within the same piece
>discourse? Would this distinction equally make sense compared to using
>{megh'an} for the end not referred to by {'er'In}?
>
>And if I once started using {'er'In} for the one end (of - say - a stick)
>and {megh'an} for the opposite end, could I possibly change towards
>referring to the latter by {'er'Invetlh} within the same discourse, or
>would this seem rather too odd (given, that the distinction through
>distinct suffixes is being understood in the first place)?
Quvar:
>The difference is the same as left/right, or even back/front of an empty
>sheet of paper.
>
>If - during a conversation - you tell me to write something on the front
>of the paper, and my name on the back of the paper, you shouldn't change
>the words you've used before.
>Next, I believe using -vam/-vetlh on 'er'In and megh'an makes no sense, it
>sound like you're saying "this left side of the table" and "that left side
>of the table".
>
>Of course left/right depends on where you stand, and the same applies to
>'er'In and megh'an (while in this case, you can choose which comes first)
>
> > I have a question especially taking in concern the synonym (?)
>
>Actually, I think it should be called the opposite, although the english
>translation is the same word!
For those interested, there's a bit more from that HolQeD article:
For the end of a longish enclosed space that one is typically inside
of or experiences from the inside, such as a corridor, tunnel, or
conduit (say, a Jefferies tube or a branch of the sewers of Paris),
a different word is used: {qa'rI'}. This is the only word; it's used
for both (or all) ends. The open entryway leading into such a space
is called a {DIn}. If there's a door there, it's referred to by the
usual word for door, {lojmIt}. {qa'rI'} is also used for the end of
bounded space which is seen as having length even if it is not enclosed
space. Thus, it is used for the end of a road, the end of a bridge,
the end of a long field. (Maltz didn't think it would mean much of
anything to refer to the {qa'rI'} of a square field.) On the other
hand, if a bridge is under construction and lies halfway across a
river or gorge or freeway, it may be said to have a {megh'an} (or
{'er'In}). One could, in theory, hang a sign or flag from the {megh'an}
(or {'er'In}), but one could walk on this incomplete bridge only as
far as the {qa'rI'}.
and his examples with {megh'an} and {'er'In}:
naQ megh'an yI'uch.
naQ 'er'In yI'uch.
Grasp the end of the stick.
naQ megh'an yI'uchHa'.
naQ 'er'In yI'uchHa'.
Let go of the end of the stick.
naQ megh'an 'er'In je tI'uch.
naQ 'er'In megh'an je tI'uch.
Grasp both ends of the stick.
("Grasp the end and the other end of the stick.")
naQ megh'an 'er'In ghap yI'uch.
naQ 'er'In megh'an ghap yI'uch.
Grasp either end of the stick.
("Grasp the end or the other end of the stick.")
all showing no preference for choosing {megh'an} over {'erIn} - or vice
versa.
The reason for this arises from the fact that IRL Okrand's twin {chang'eng}
nieces are named Megan and Erin; their mother is named Kari. As a good
uncle, he dare show no preference - even linguistically - for one over the
other. BTW notice that there's since there's only one mother, there's only
one word for {qa'rI'}.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons