tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 06 14:54:36 2006
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Re: Questions in tlhIngan syntax (II) Double superlatives???
lay'tel SIvten:
>>card S31-07
>> 'IQ pagh.
>> [lit.: No one is sad.]
>> ...rather than mournful and ...
yay 'oS bey. 'IQ pagh.
This yell is victorious in nature, rather than mournful... S31
FYI, more examples of {pagh} "nothing, none, no one":
pa'vo' pagh leghlu'
The room has no view. CK
(lit. "from there nothing is seen")
Qu' buSHa'chugh SuvwI', batlhHa' vangchugh, qoj matlhHa'chugh, pagh ghaH
SuvwI''e'
If a warrior ignores duty, acts dishonorably, or is disloyal, he is
nothing. TKW
SoHvaD pagh vIjatlh, Human
I have nothing to say to you, human. (ENT "Affliction")
(lit. "I will say nothing to you")
lojmIt poSDaq Daq pagh
No one eavesdrops at an open door. PK
yay 'oS bey. 'IQ pagh.
This yell is victorious in nature, rather than mournful... S31
Unfortunately, no examples of {pagh} used with {-be'} or {-Qo'}.
>>Does {'IQbe' pagh} ('Nobody is not sad') mean that someone is sad, everyone
>>is sad, or what?
Or maybe just an ignorant error. We don't know. Which was exactly my point:
Voragh:
>I'm not sure how a Klingon would perceive an double negative by a
>foreigner in Klingon.
With our current knowledge of the language, if you want to say "everyone",
for maximum clarity you should use {Hoch}; for "someone" use {vay'} or even
{-lu'}.
Although it doesn't help answer our double negative question, there's an
interesting contrast between {vay'} vs. {-lu'} in:
batlh Heghlu'chugh noDnISbe' vay'
An honorable death requires no vengeance. TKW
Literally, "if (some)one dies honorably, someone [else?] does not need to
seek revenge". Presumably the first "(some)one" {-lu'} is general, while
the second is a specific, if unknown, someone {vay'}. FWIW Okrand also
links these in KGT (p. 181):
["Among those suffixes that can never occur together are {-lu'}
(indefinite subject indicator) and {-laH} (can, able). <...> If
it is desirable to express the ideas of "indefinite subject" and
"ability" at the same time, such as in the sentences "One can
capture the enemy" or "The enemy can be captured", it is not
uncommon to use the noun {vay'} ("somebody, anybody") as the
subject of the sentence: {jagh jonlaH vay'} ("Somebody can
capture the enemy", or "Anybody can capture the enemy").
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons