tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 18 08:39:26 2006
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Re: KLBC: "in life"
ter'eS BG:
>Hi, qa'pIn qI'meQ, I'm the Beginner's Grammarian, etc.,
>etc. (since you use KLBC, I assume you know the rest!)
Now that the BG has responded, I'll add my two cents...
qa'pIn qI'meQ wrote:
>> "the best things in life aren't things"
>> Dochmey yInDaq QaQ'a', Dochmeybe' 'e'
>>
>>First of all I hope this is right for the greater part,
>>but my question is specificly about my use of {-Daq} here.
>>I fear that this might actually be too close to the English
>>version... Or is {yInDaq} good for "in life"?
ter'eS BG:
>"in the life of things". The suffix {-Daq} seems to
>be reserved for indicating location, so this would
>mean literally "WITHIN the life...", and wouldn't
>refer metaphorically to one's life experience.
qa'pIn qI'meQ's fears about translating English too literally are
right. The trick to using {-Daq} "in, on, at" and {-vo'} "from" is that
they seem to refer ONLY to physical location WRT a physical object: e.g.
"in the holster", "at my house", "from the bridge", "on the planet". When
they are used more abstractly in English - e.g. "in my opinion", "when in
the course of human events", "in fact", "on the other hand", "from time
immemorial" - you need to recast them in Klingon.
ter'eS BG:
>Here's how I would translate that phrase, and why:
>
> {yIn'e' Dochmey nIv bIHbe' Dochmey'e'}
>
>{yIn'e'}: {yIn} 'life' + {-'e'} 'as for (topical
>suffix)': "as for life, so far as life is concerned".
>This is an adverbial comment, more or less
>independent of the rest of the sentence.
> [....]
>{Dochmey'e'}: 'things'. The suffix {-'e'} is used
>automatically to mark the subject of an equational
>sentence. This is the same suffix as on {yIn},
>but in the first case, is marking an adverbial
>comment ('as for life') and here is just marking
>the subject.
This is one way to do it and we have a couple of examples FYI:
HaqwI''e' DaH yISam
Find the surgeon now!" (TKD 180)
("As for the surgeon, find him now!")
qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS
You would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy. (ST6)
("As for warrior(s) in the galaxy, you are the greatest of all.")
But using TWO {-'e'} topic suffixes in one sentence this way looks very
strange. AFAIK it's not out and out wrong, but Okrand has never done it,
probably because it would defeat the whole purpose of marking the
topic: Which noun in the sentence are you actually talking about, {yIn} or
{Dochmey}?
Since the second {-'e'} is required on the subject of an equational
sentence, we're back to recasting the "in life" bit again. I would use the
verb {yIn} "live, be alive" plus {-taHvIS} in an introductory
clause: {bIyIntaHvIS} "while you are living, when you are alive":
bIyIntaHvIS Dochmey nIv bIHbe' Dochmey'e'
Examples of {yIn} used this way (emphasis added):
yIntaHvIS qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' batlh 'etlhvam chenmoHlu'pu'
this sword of honor descends FROM THE TIME OF KAHLESS THE UNFORGETTABLE.
(S8)
yIntaHvIS qIrq DuHbe' roj
There will be no peace AS LONG AS KIRK LIVES. (ST5 notes)
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons