tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 27 19:56:39 2004

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Re: use and purpose of this list.

Alan Anderson ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

>On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Alan Anderson wrote:
>> Would you like to know what I think the real problem is?  It's that you
>> keep comparing and contrasting Klingon with other languages, with no
>> obvious reason except to point out how Klingon is somehow weak, incomplete,
>> or otherwise inferior....

ja' "...Paul" <[email protected]>:
>Comparing Klingon to other languages is absolutely a useful exercise.
>There have been numerous examples on this list in the past where Klingon
>was compared to existing languages -- for the purposes of understanding
>syntactical constructions.

Indeed, when the purpose is to aid in understanding, it's perfectly
appropriate.  I'm just tired of seeing comparisons made where the only
purpose I can see is to emphasize Klingon's low status among other
languages.  It's entirely possible that some other purpose is behind them,
and I'd be happy to find that to be the case.  But I haven't seen one.

>Now, the flip side.  You don't get off unscathed.  :)  I've said this MANY
>times before, and it's almost always in response to the *same* handful of
>people on this list.  Some of you 'experts' are so wrapped up in your
>authority as such, that you definitely have a running pattern of coming
>across very brusque whenever someone who is NOT an "expert" posits
>something you disagree with.  Instead of responding with insightful
>comments and logical explanations for disagreement, you often resort to
>this kind of "tough guy" behavior, pushing your views on the list by
>merely bullying people into submission (or into leaving).  For example:

Please consider the history of this particular issue.  I know *I* started
with "insightful comments and logical explanations".  But after the nth
repetition of having my comments brushed off without ceremony, frustration
takes over and I switch to "loud" mode in an attempt to get an answer as to
why my attempts to be helpful are being ignored.

>> tlhIngan Hol Dajatlhqu'Qo'chugh...vaj bIjatlh 'e' yImev.
>
>As has been discussed before, this list is for either speaking IN Klingon,
>or speaking ABOUT Klingon.  You are out of line to tell anyone not to
>speak on this list just because they're not doing it in Klingon,
>particularly if they are at least speaking *about* the language.

My admonition was addressed specifically to the revelation that he wasn't
studying Klingon in order to be able to speak it (though he has never come
out and explained why he *is* studying it).  That basically destroys any
inclination I might have to listen to his complaints about the language,
and it makes me very prone to caustic comments when he says he doesn't
understand why he's being treated badly.

>If you don't agree with something someone says, defend your position.
>Intellectual disagreement is a very constructive thing.  Telling people to
>shut up just because they have different goals and views as your own is
>not at all constructive.

I keep forgetting that subtleties are not apparent to everyone.  My intent
was not to give a blanket order to "shut up."  I meant merely to tell him
to stop complaining about the language's faults if he wasn't planning to
*use* it.

>maghojmeH batlh peghoH!  maQeHchoHmeH neH batlhHa' peghoHQo'.

toH -- tagha' mu'mey vIyajlaHbogh vItu'!

tlhIngan Hol vIlo'DI', jIghoHchugh pagh jIghoHbe'chugh, ghojlu' net
ghurlaH.  jIQeHmoHchugh pagh jIQeHmoHbe'chugh, mu'meywIj leghlaH Hoch.
pabwIj QIjmeH laH ghajnISbe' ghojwI'.  laDqangnIS 'ej yajqangnIS neH.

'ej QeHchoHchugh vIngwI''a', jISaHbe'.  SanDaj bajta'.

-- ghunchu'wI'

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