tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jul 09 00:42:20 2004

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Re: Re: Hol Sup 'oH tlhIngan Hol'e'

QeS lagh ([email protected]) 

ghItlhDajDaq ghItlhpu' Yens Wahlgren:

"But when the day comes when someone has Klingon as a native tongue the
language will start to develop in a natural way and Star Trek, Marc Okrand
and the KLI will all lose linguistic power. You can?t tell a real Klingon
how to use her language.''

jangpu' Christoph:

>'e' vIQoch!
>With that, I disagree.
>teH tlhIngan leghlu'be'taHqu'.
>No one will EVER see a true klingon.(I tried to say ''There will never be 
>klingons'', but I failed at the ''be'').

Often you can translate "be" with {tu'lu'} "one finds, one notices, one 
observes": {not tlhInganpu'na' lutu'lu'} "one will never find true 
Klingons". (BTW: {Qoch} is perhaps a bit strong. Your point is good, but as 
far as I can tell you're not disagreeing with the point Yens has made, just 
with the phrasing he's using.)

A suggestion with regard to your sentence: "a true Klingon" would probably 
be {tlhIngan teH}, not {teH tlhIngan}. Remember, though, that Klingon has 
the perfect device for this: the Type 3 suffix {-na'}. As well, you might 
get a little more of the sense you're after if you use the noun {pagh}:

tlhInganna' leghtaHqu' pagh
Nobody will ever see a true Klingon

>tlhIngan bIjatlhmo' neH, tlhIngan SoHbe'.
>Just because you speak the klingon language, (doesn't mean) you are a 
>klingon. (or , you aren't a klingon.)

Remember agreement on {jatlh}: {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlhmo' neH}.

>What I mean is(that I couldn´t translate) being Klingon(or German or 
>American, or whatever) isn´t just a question of native language - it's the 
>cultural environment, and, to an extent, the physiology of your body. 
>Klingons are much stronger than we are, otherwise their culture would have 
>developed different, more like those we know.

Here's how I'd say what you wanted to say. When you recast into Klingon, 
often you have to radically rethink what you want to say. So:
tlhIngan SoHchugh, tlhIngan DumojmoHbe'pu' Hol neH. potlh je nugh porghlIj 
je. tlhInganpu' HoSghaj law' Human HoSghaj puS, vaj pIm Human nughmey 
tlhIngan nugh je.
"If you are a Klingon, it's not merely language that has made you a Klingon. 
Society and your body are also important. Klingons are stronger than humans, 
so human and Klingon societies are different."

And in answer:
nugh nuvpu' potlh law' porgh HoS potlh puS. ramqu' porgh HoS 'e' vIHar. 
vulqangan porgh HoSghaj law'qu' Human porgh HoSghaj puSqu', 'ach jot 
vulqanganpu'. Human nugh'e' potlhtaH HoS, 'ach pIm potlhbogh HoS: 
potlhchoHpu' Huch HoS.
Bodily strength isn't that important. In fact, I believe it's totally 
trivial. The people in the society are the most important thing. Vulcans are 
far stronger than humans, but look at their calm culture. And power is still 
important in human culture; it's just a different type of power.

Savan.

QeS lagh

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