tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 11 17:05:04 2004

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Re: DCKL translation question: argueing arguments

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

ghel Quvar:

>dispute v. (argue) ghoH.
>
>Is this meant in a negative or in a positive sense?

{ghoH}  "argue, dispute"

What's the difference?  (And if there is one for humans, would Klingons 
feel the same way?  I imagine a Klingon disputation would be considerably 
more aggressive that what humans are used to! <g>)

>My translation works lead me to a negative meaning, but then I saw seen a 
>sentence apparently by marc
>okrand saying that Klingons {ghoH} at the qep'a'. I suppose you have not 
>been not fighting over there,
>so this "argueing" is more in the sense of "talking, discussing, argueing 
>a specific topic"

Here's what Okrand wrote to SuStel about his visit to {qep'a' wejDIch} on 
the newsgroup msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand (November 10, 1996):

   qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'.
   ghoHtaH je.  tIv'eghtaH je.  vaj SuquvmoH.

This is the only example of {ghoH} in canon.  Okrand clearly enjoyed seeing 
Klingon vigorously used at the qep'a'.  (This may have been the first one 
he attended IIRC.)  So I would say that there are no inherently negative 
overtones implied.

>It's not "having arguments", that would be {Sol} right?

If I understand you, yes.  {Sol} is "quarrel" which (of course!) has never 
been used in canon.

Note also the idiom {jop 'ej way'} "have an argument", which Okrand 
describes in KGT (p.115):

   This idiom, which means "have an argument," is based on movements
   associated with the bat'leth. During the course of a bout, both
   parties, among other things, alternately lunge ({jop}), that is,
   push the bat'leth toward the opponent, and deflect ({way'}), or
   use the bat'leth to push the oncoming one away. Each side, then,
   engages in both offensive and defensive movements, and this
   alternation of roles is likened to a verbal duel. In using the
   expression, the appropriate verbal affixes are attached; for
   example, {wIjoppu' 'ej wIway'pu'} ("We have lunged and we have
   deflected"--that is, "We have had an argument"). If the two verbs
   are reversed ({way' 'ej jop} ["deflect and lunge"]), the idea of
   "have an argument" is not present, though the phrase is perfectly
   well formed if referring to a bat'leth bout.

Other argumentative words include {qap} "insist" and {poQ} "demand".



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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