tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 04 10:01:54 2004

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RE: KLBC: Genesis 1:1-5

Daniel Abraham ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

> > 1    mungDaq chal ghor je chenmoHta' Qun.
> > DungDaq leng Qun qa'.
> > 3    <<wovchoH>> jatlh Qun, 'ej ghIq wovchoHta'.
> > 4    'ej QaQ wovtaHghachvam 'e' legh Qun, 'ej wovtaHghachvam
> > HurghtaHghachvetlh je chev Qun.
> > 5    'ej wovtaHghachvaD <<pem>> pong Qun, HurghtaHghachvaD 
> <<ram>> pong je;
> > choS tu'lu', ghIq po tu'lu' - wa' jaj.
> >  
> > 2. I'm not comfortable with {mungDaq} since "In the
> beginning" refers
> > to both time and space (or neither, or just time - depends on one's
> > point of view), and {mungDaq} refers only to a location, 
> sort of. Any
> > creative suggestions regarding {-vIS} or {-pa'}?
> 
> I like {taghmeH}.  I also prefer {yav} instead of {ghor}.
> {ghor} doesn't seem like a word an 
> ancient culture woud use.

{tagh} certainly seems to be useful here, but {-meH}? I think the meaning
should be heaven and earth were made at the time of the beginning, not
exactly for its sake.

As for {yav} - didn't see that one, cool.

> > 2    'ej chenbe'pu' ghor 'ej chImpu' 'oH, 'ej Hurgh 
> Qargh'a' bIS'ub, 'ej bIQ

> I really don't like {chenbe'} here.  chay' chenbe'laH yav?
> chenbej; qen chenmoHta' Qun!  
> There may simply be no way in Klingon to express the idea 
> that something can be "made" 
> and yet not yet have a form.  Perhaps you might use use 
> {narghmoH} in the first verse, but 
> this is unsatisfying.  Or perhaps use {'u'} in the first 
> verse instead og {chal yav je}; after all, 
> "heaven and earth" is just an idomatic expression that means 
> all of creation.
> 
> I have also heard the theory that the Hebrew should be
> translated "When God began to 
> create the heavens and the earth, the earth was formless and 
> empty".  If this is the case, 
> then there is no conflict between {chenmoH} and {chenbe'}.

Doh! Didn't notice that double use {chen}.

The Hebrew text is quite literal: "(1) In the beginning god created the
sky/skies and the earth. (2) And the earth was formless...". There is a
theological theory which I got to know when I translated this passage that
it shouldn't be read in as a linear story, that one can divide it into 2
separate and parallel story lines, meaning ultimately that verse 2 doesn't
really follow (chronologically) verse 1.

That being said, I think you're absolutely right. Even if it's correct, the
text should not be confusing for a native Klingon reader. The Hebrew/English
versions I've seen so far  use different ways to describe the earth's
creation and its formless state.

As for {'u'} - isn't that just as "modern" as {ghor}? Maybe {ngeHbej}, hmm,
or something entirely different...

By the way, the term "heaven and earth" is indeed an idiom - even in Hebrew
- but the idiom originates exactly from this place. At least in this
particular instance it's meant quite literally, unlike other places that I
can't recall right now when even the bible uses it as an idiom ("heaven and
earth and all their armies" or something).

> > 4. {wovtaHghach} and {HurghtaHghach} seem very iffy because of the 
> > {-taHghach} syndrome, but I can't think of a better re-phrasing...
> 
> poH wov, poH Hurgh

I didn't regard the *time* of light/darkness as a good translation to the
light/darkness on its own, but the more I think about it the more
appropriate it seems. vIparHa'!


bIjaj

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