tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jul 16 15:08:37 1998
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Re: KLBCbej: jIyIntaH
ja' Qov:
> ---Christiane Scharf wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > Well, that's my problem. Is {-taH} + {rIntaH} ungrammatical or
> just
> > > > unusual /weird?
> > >
> > > rIntaH itself is weird. Whether -taH + rIntaH is ungrammatical is a
> > > matter of semantics. It's certainly a contradiction. Either it
> > > continues or it doesn't. Pick one.
> > >
> >
> > Hhhmm... <bIyIntaH rIntaH> - <Your continuous living is now over.> or
> > something like this.
>
> Much more like: "You continue to live. That is irreversably done."
> Which? Continues or done? Either something continues to happen or
> continues to be complete. Both makes no sense.
>
> rIntaH means "it continues to be complete." If you want to talk about
> an action enduring and then stopping with a sense of finality, try
> something like:
>
> maSuvtaH 'e' mamev rIntaH
>
> Sounds like I'm talking to a God. <bISuv rIntaH> -
> > <Your fighting is over.> To me, this implies that the person spoken
> to will
> > never fight again.
>
> It's an emphatic version of /bISuvta'/. It just means "you have
> fought, that's it." It doesn't really say they can't fight again.
>
> <bISuvtaH rIntaH> - <Your ongoing fighting is over.> This
> > could be said after a battle which went on for a very long time but
> which is
> > finally won/lost. Are my thoughts on this extremely weird? I do know
> this is
> > something I'll probably (almost) never use, but it happened to me
> that I
> > came across it and I hate open questions.
>
> I think you have an exaggerated meaning for /-taH/ in your mind. It
> doesn't have anything to do with eternity, and doesn't necessarily
> denote long duration.
> It just means that the action of the verb it is attached to continues
> during, before, or after the time of the sentence.
>
> wa'Hu' jIyIttaH
> could be
> "yesterday I was still walking"
> "yesterday I went walking"
> "yesterday I was walking"
> "y-day I kept on walking"
> you could say
> "y-day I walked continuously"
> but I think that the best translation for a verb in /-taH/ rarely
> contains the word "continuous."
>
> The perfective, on the other hand, shows that the action was completed
> at the time of the sentence. rIntaH is an emphatic perfective.
> Literally "It continues to be complete."
>
> wa' Hu' bISuv - y-day you fought
> wa'Hu' bISuvtaH - y-day you went on fighting, you were fighting
> wa'Hu' bISuvta' - y-day you had fought, you had already fought
> wa'Hu' bISuv rIntaH - "Yesterday you had fought and that was already
> over and done with, the end."
>
> pItlh.
> ==
> Qov - Beginners' Grammarian
>
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Thanx for clearing this. I think I understand it now.
HovqIj