tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 15 15:09:12 1998

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Re: KLBCbej: jIyIntaH

---Christiane Scharf  wrote:

> > neplaw' ponglIj.
> 
> nepbe'. jI*inconspicuous*qu'. jItam. le'be' porghwIj. nuvpu' law'
> leghlu'chugh vIqawbe'lu'bej. jISaH 'ach vIleghbe'lu'. rur Hov qIj
ghu'.
> SaH 'ach leghbe'lu'.

chaq motlh bISaHbejtaHvIS Daleghbe'lu' 'ach naDev bIboch.  bIgheltaH,
bIghaqtaH, bIvumqu'.  lut qaja'.  qep'a'Daq jIpawpa' not jIQat.  rut
muvuvpu' nuvpu' 'ach not jIQat.  qep'a' wejDIchDaq pay' jIQat!  jIH
retlhDaq ba' luneH nuvpu'!  vuDwIj luneHqu'.  jIHvaD chu'chu' wanI'. 
pIm neH tlhIngan Hol nugh.  yIlaj 'ej yItIv.

> > > Well, that's my problem. Is {-taH} + {rIntaH} ungrammatical or
just
> > > unusual /weird?
> >
> > rIntaH itself is weird.  Whether -taH + rIntaH is ungrammatical is a
> > matter of semantics.  It's certainly a contradiction.  Either it
> > continues or it doesn't.  Pick one.
> >
> 
> Hhhmm... <bIyIntaH rIntaH> - <Your continuous living is now over.> or
> something like this. 

Much more like: "You continue to live.  That is irreversably done." 
Which?  Continues or done?  Either something continues to happen or
continues to be complete.  Both makes no sense.  

rIntaH means "it continues to be complete."  If you want to talk about
an action enduring and then stopping with a sense of finality, try
something like:

maSuvtaH 'e' mamev rIntaH

Sounds like I'm talking to a God. <bISuv rIntaH> -
> <Your fighting is over.> To me, this implies that the person spoken
to will
> never fight again. 

It's an emphatic version of /bISuvta'/.  It just means "you have
fought, that's it."  It doesn't really say they can't fight again.  

<bISuvtaH rIntaH> - <Your ongoing fighting is over.> This
> could be said after a battle which went on for a very long time but
which is
> finally won/lost. Are my thoughts on this extremely weird? I do know
this is
> something I'll probably (almost) never use, but it happened to me
that I
> came across it and I hate open questions.

I think you have an exaggerated meaning for /-taH/ in your mind.  It
doesn't have anything to do with eternity, and doesn't necessarily
denote long duration. 
It just means that the action of the verb it is attached to continues
during, before, or after the time of the sentence.  

wa'Hu' jIyIttaH
could be 
"yesterday I was still walking"
"yesterday I went walking"
"yesterday I was walking"
"y-day I kept on walking"
you could say
"y-day I walked continuously"
but I think that the best translation for a verb in /-taH/ rarely
contains the word "continuous."  

The perfective, on the other hand, shows that the action was completed
at the time of the sentence.  rIntaH is an emphatic perfective. 
Literally "It continues to be complete."  

wa' Hu' bISuv - y-day you fought
wa'Hu' bISuvtaH - y-day you went on fighting, you were fighting
wa'Hu' bISuvta' - y-day you had fought, you had already fought
wa'Hu' bISuv rIntaH - "Yesterday you had fought and that was already
over and done with, the end."

pItlh.
==
Qov - Beginners' Grammarian 

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