tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 29 19:14:45 1998
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Quality and Aspect Was: Re: KLBC Poetry
- From: "Qermaq" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Quality and Aspect Was: Re: KLBC Poetry
- Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:16:45 -0500
ghItlh SuStel ghunchu'wI' je:
>>...Indeed, while {tuj} is a verb of quality, {tujchoH} describes an
>>action. Perhaps one is not allowed to place a perfective suffix on any
>>construction which does not describe an action. (This is just
speculation.)
>
>Ooh, good observation. I now see exactly why we disagree on this. Yes,
>an aspect suffix on a verb that's not describing an action is a bit odd.
>I doubt that it's forbidden, but it would seem that interpreting what it
>means is a topic of debate. :-) I agree that using {-choH} makes sense
>on my {nen} and {DeH} examples, and based on how I came up with them
>it
>would likely fit well on any similar examples I wanted to give. But I'm
>still not "feeling" that {tujpu'} implies that the being hot has stopped.
<-pu'> is simply explained as indicating "an action is completed". There are
two interpretations. One, only action verbs have meaning when <-pu'> is
affixed; two, other verbs can take <-pu> with meaning, and MO simply hasn't
told us how this works yet.
Either interpretation yields the same fact - We do not know exactly how a
Klingon would react to <tujpu'>. But here are my opinions.
<tujpu'> = it was hot before, but no implication of its present state. This
is just past tense. <-pu'> never gives this impression.
<tujpu'> = it was hot and now is not hot. This seems likely, if we re-think
<tuj> into an active verb "take the form of a hot thing". (Or as close to
active as it can get - I'm not sure if this is properly active.) Adding
<-pu'> yields "has completed taking the form of a hot thing" and thus, the
subject is no longer intentionally hot. It may be still cooling off, but
being hot is no longer a state in which the subject is engaged. So it isn't
necessarily "not hot" now. BUT - I do not believe the concept "be hot" and
the concept "take the form of a hot thing" are equivalent, so this one isn't
for me either.
That leaves two possibilities, either of which I might support. Either it
does not work at all, or the state has passed and is no longer applicable to
the subject (in the perspective of the speaker).
Example: if I say <jIroppu'> what does it mean? "I am not sick" is
<jIropbe'>. "I was sick" is something like <wa'Hu' jIrop>. I think, if it
means anything, it means "My being sick is completed." Thus, I am well. maj.
Qermaq