tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 24 22:23:58 1998

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Re: KLBC: nuq and 'Iv

At 13:52 98-01-22 -0800, edy wrote:

>Sometimes nuq and 'Iv behave as substantives, right?

For anyone who doesn't have a dictionary as close as I did:

Substantive: a noun or group of words used as the grammatical 
equivalent of a noun.

> The classic exemple is nuqDaq, 
> but sometimes I see:
> pongDaj nuqpu', HoD 'Ivqang (Capt Krankor - The Gramarian Desk)

Holy mother of Kahless.  WHAT is Krankor doing?  If that is supposed 
to be:  "What had been her name?"  and "Who is willing to be the 
captain?" then I hope Krankor has a good excuse for it. It isn't against the
rules per se, but it is provocative. I would call 
{pongDaq nuqpu'} clipped and prefer {nuq 'oHpu' pongDaj'e'} or 
{pongDaj ngo' HIja'}

>So I am wondering to know if it works in sentences like:

>nuqvaD Data'pu' - you did it for what?

I accept it, but only if there is a reason why it is better than 
{qatlh Data'pu'?}

>nuqvo' DajatlhtaH - you are talking about (from) 

I think the only answer to this one is {nujwIj} or {taghDu'wIj}. 
It is asking what someone is talking directionally from, not 
concerning. But:

nuqvo' Dachagh?  - What did you drop it from?

is fine with me.

> what? nuqmo' yaS DaHoHqang - you are willing 
> to kill the oficer because what?

Generally better said in English or Klingon with why/qatlh.

> 'IvvaD Data'pu' - You did it for who?
> 'Ivvo' DajatlhtaH - You are talking about who?

Same comment as before: {-vo'} is not appropriate to denote the topic of a
conversation.  {'Ivvo' De'vam DaSuq?}  "From whom did you get this information?

> 'Ivmo' yaS DaHoHqang - you are willing to kill the oficer because of
> whom?

I see these as acceptable.  The question word goes where the answer would
go.  I know some other BGs don't like my liberal interpretation of the
question words as nouns to be used anywhere in the sentence.  I was
castigated for advocating {'Iv targh} for "whose targ."  Listen to what they
have to say and then decide for yourself.

>I always have trouble with who and whom. It's difficult for me when 
>I use them. 

I think I'll try my hand at English grammarian.

If you want to sound like most native speakers, either never use 
"whom," or use it only when it directly follows a preposition and is 
the object of that preposition.  (Those three above should all have 
been "whom.")  A lot of people won't notice and most people won't 
care if you use "who" where you should have used "whom."  Using 
"whom" where "who" should be used would be a very strange error for a 
native speaker to make; I hear it sometimes when someone is trying to 
sound pretentious, but doesn't know what he is doing.   

If you really want to use who and whom correctly, look at the clause 
they occur in.  For the subject of the clause, use "who" and 
for the object of the clause use "whom," unless it is the 
object of a copula verb.  (The subject case is correctly used for a 
pronoun that is the object of an English copula verb.  I don't make 
the rules, I just report them.)

Whom do you see? 
I don't know who he is.
I congratulate the warriors who won.
I help the warriors whom they defeated.

>The same happens with remember and remind.

remember = qaw
remind = qawmoH

Perhaps if you remember an expression like "please remember to remind 
me" you will remember that you "remind" a _person_ of somthing but 
that you "remember" something yourself.  

Qov     [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian

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